| Stran v tématu: < [1 2 3] > | Consequences of late delivery Autor vlákna: Max Zalewski
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John Fossey 
Kanada
Local time: 03:41
Člen (2008)
francouzština -> angličtina
+ ...
| Was there harm done? | Apr 18, 2013 |
While it's unfortunate that the translation was delivered late, were there any real consequences to you? If you suffered loss of a client or a loss of revenue yourself as a result, then there would be some real damages. If, however, you were able to use the service rendered, even if late, and did not suffer any actual damage as a result, then I think you should pay for it. You may choose not to use the translator again, of course.
Some may disagree and feel that the penalty for lat... See more While it's unfortunate that the translation was delivered late, were there any real consequences to you? If you suffered loss of a client or a loss of revenue yourself as a result, then there would be some real damages. If, however, you were able to use the service rendered, even if late, and did not suffer any actual damage as a result, then I think you should pay for it. You may choose not to use the translator again, of course.
Some may disagree and feel that the penalty for late delivery should not be tied to harm, but I think it should be. Otherwise, if you did not suffer any damages you end up profiting from the vendor's penalty.
Just my $0.02. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Phil Hand
Čína
Local time: 15:41
čínština -> angličtina
| TMs can be aligned | Apr 18, 2013 |
I assume that your client didn't want the TM, and that it was for your own use in future projects. I'd take a pragmatic view on that: ask the translator to make a TM by aligning the translations, and ignore the fact that it's late.
For late delivery of the translation - negotiation is better than fiat. You don't mention exactly what impact the late delivery had on you, so we don't know what your starting position would be. But if you can get the translator to agree to a reduction in... See more I assume that your client didn't want the TM, and that it was for your own use in future projects. I'd take a pragmatic view on that: ask the translator to make a TM by aligning the translations, and ignore the fact that it's late.
For late delivery of the translation - negotiation is better than fiat. You don't mention exactly what impact the late delivery had on you, so we don't know what your starting position would be. But if you can get the translator to agree to a reduction in the fees (if any), it's better than running the risk of legal action. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
Indie
Local time: 13:11
Člen (2006)
angličtina -> hindština
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Also consider time zone differences and holidays | Apr 18, 2013 |
I don't know how distant you and your translator are with respect to time zone. As an example, I, located in Mumbai, and a client located somewhere in the western parts of the US would be 12 hours distant from each other, with me being 12 hours ahead of him. That is, there is almost a day's difference here. If the situation is reversed, then my client would be 12 hours ahead of me, and I would get one working day less than agreed upon, unless time zones were actually mentioned in the corresponde... See more I don't know how distant you and your translator are with respect to time zone. As an example, I, located in Mumbai, and a client located somewhere in the western parts of the US would be 12 hours distant from each other, with me being 12 hours ahead of him. That is, there is almost a day's difference here. If the situation is reversed, then my client would be 12 hours ahead of me, and I would get one working day less than agreed upon, unless time zones were actually mentioned in the correspondence.
Also consider week-ends and holidays. Holidays could be different in different parts of the world. For example, while Christmas and New Year would be non-working days in most of the Western world, Diwali or Holi (coming in October and March) would be non-working days in India. Similarly there would be different non-working days in other parts of the world.
If any such non-working days intervened your project duration, you should take a lenient stand.
I think it is not a question of legality, but of mutual understanding and accommodation.
Was the translation of good quality and ultimately usable, even if delivered late? Did you incur financial or other liabilities because of the late delivery? Did the translator have a genuine reason for late delivery (illness, computer crash, cultural factors like local holiday, family emergency, etc.)? I think these questions should be taken into consideration by you before arriving at any final decision.
Of course, it is unprofessional to agree to something and not keep to it, but translation is not some clockwork controlled activity and is done by human hands who are subject to human failings, constraints and shortcomings. Anyone should be sensitive to these things. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Kim Metzger
Mexiko
Local time: 01:41
němčina -> angličtina
| Time zones and holidays | Apr 18, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Also consider week-ends and holidays. Holidays could be different in different parts of the world. For example, while Christmas and New Year would be non-working days in most of the Western world, Diwali or Holi (coming in October and March) would be non-working days in India. Similarly there would be different non-working days in other parts of the world.
If any such non-working days intervened your project duration, you should take a lenient stand.
If a translator agrees to deliver a job by a specific date, he must deliver by that date. End of story.
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Balasubramaniam L.
Indie
Local time: 13:11
Člen (2006)
angličtina -> hindština
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER | Other points to consider | Apr 18, 2013 |
I am not trying to attenuate the seriousness of the lapse, overshooting deadlines is indeed a serious lapse, but before considering appropriate action for it, here are a few more points to consider (in addition to the ones I had mentioned in my earlier post).
How good is your own record of meeting your own commitment to translators? Do you pay them on time as agreed or have there been occasions in the past when payments have been delayed by you by a few days?
Have your ... See more I am not trying to attenuate the seriousness of the lapse, overshooting deadlines is indeed a serious lapse, but before considering appropriate action for it, here are a few more points to consider (in addition to the ones I had mentioned in my earlier post).
How good is your own record of meeting your own commitment to translators? Do you pay them on time as agreed or have there been occasions in the past when payments have been delayed by you by a few days?
Have your translators taken legal or other action against you for late payments or other lapses on your part and the financial consequences these had on them? Or more likely, as few translators have the wherewithal to go to courts, written to you asking for delayed payments to be made forthwith?
These would factor in in your chosen action. If your record on honouring your contractual commitments to your translators is impeccable, then you are on a moral high ground to expect similar high standards from your translators. If not, "do unto others as they do unto you" in reverse, to quote the Bible!
As far as my experience goes, it is routine on the part of even the best of agencies for payments to be a day or two, and sometimes weeks, off the mark.
Professionalism is needed in our industry, but on the part of both translators and agencies.
[2013-04-18 04:24 GMT पर संपादन हुआ] ▲ Collapse
| | | | Balasubramaniam L.
Indie
Local time: 13:11
Člen (2006)
angličtina -> hindština
+ ...
SITE LOCALIZER
Kim Metzger wrote:
If a translator agrees to deliver a job by a specific date, he must deliver by that date. End of story.
I am surprised, Kim, that an experienced professional like you, would take such a rigid stance.
What if the translator fell ill (unexpectedly), or had some unforseen emergency like a death in the family, which prevented him/her from completing the job on time?
I myself, who make a fetish of meeting deadlines, have had external agencies coming in my way of indulging my fetish. In one case - I was in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, at that time - it was an earthquake of magnitude 7.9 which broke all contact with the external world for me for days. Of course I missed many deadlines at that time. I was literally living on the streets as people were afraid to go into their homes because of the aftershocks.
The best professionals in the world in the best of professions have on occasions missed deadlines. It is not a capital offence in my opinion.
[2013-04-18 04:58 GMT पर संपादन हुआ]
| | | | ahartje
Portugalsko
Local time: 08:41
Člen (2006)
němčina -> portugalština
+ ...
| | Deadlines are PARAMOUNT (with Kim) | Apr 18, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
Kim Metzger wrote:
If a translator agrees to deliver a job by a specific date, he must deliver by that date. End of story.
I am surprised, Kim, that an experienced professional like you, would take such a rigid stance.
What if the translator fell ill (unexpectedly), or had some unforeseen emergency like a death in the family, which prevented him/her from completing the job on time?
I find this type of question something of a straw man. Deadlines are set for reasons and they are absolutely of PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, perhaps sharing the top rank with translation quality.
We make or break our reputations based on our ability to meet deadlines, and IMHO, any statement implying the contrary is disingenuous. When was the last time you saw a website or project ad/request from a potential client/outsourcer referring to long-term collaboration that stated, in effect, "No worries, we are totally relaxed about deadlines!"?
It should go without saying that exceptions can and will be handled and ironed out - WITH a client's understanding, cooperation, and sometimes assistance - but NOT without.
As for the OP, the truth is, this is a breach of contract. As another posted pointed out, it is not "non-performance" per se, but it seems to me that it would most certainly be "defective performance".
While I might normally be inclined to suggest paying only a small percent of the original amount agreed on (missing a deadline by THREE DAYS?!!!), I do agree with one poster that if the OP didn't actually suffer "harm" from the lateness, that should mitigate the penalty.
For example, if the OP's own deadline was actually five days later and he was able to proofread or whatever else necessary to get the translation to the final client (assuming there was one) on time, then there is not as strong a legal or ethical argument to deduct more than a token penalty, maybe 30% or so (subject to quality considerations, of course).
What I'm sure we are all wondering - what on earth did this translator say was/were the reason(s) behind a delivery that was late by three days?! Was the OP in constant communication (every day) with the translator while the translation was late? Did the OP request that the translator turn in what s/he had at that time? Did the OP tell the translator that there would be (any) consequences of this late delivery? What was going on for those three days??
I simply cannot imagine having let things get that far without some sort of tacit consent - and that presents the REAL issue behind whether and how much to deduct from the amount agreed on, methinks.
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felicij
Local time: 09:41
němčina -> slovinština
+ ...
| He said, he asked the translator | Apr 18, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
What if the translator fell ill (unexpectedly), or had some unforseen emergency like a death in the family, which prevented him/her from completing the job on time?
...and the translator replied that everything is going well, so presumably there were no such occurrences.
In my 13 years I failed to deliver on time only 3 times. Twice due to objective reasons (computer failure) and once due to an illness of my child.
A fee deduction and the request for TM delivery is IMO necessarry to let the translator know you are not satisfied by his/her delivery. It's like you order a new computer with OS and you get it without the OS three days late. You would demand that OS and a discount for having to wait for three days...
| | | | Sheila Wilson
Španělsko
Local time: 08:41
Člen (2007)
angličtina
+ ...
| Jessica's suggestion is the way to go, IMO | Apr 18, 2013 |
Now that we have more of the facts, I would say that the translator:
a) agreed to provide a translation
b) agreed to a deadline
c) agreed to provide a TM
This person delivered on (a) but failed on both the other counts.
Everything else, such as not knowing what a TM is, having a heart-attack or experiencing an earthquake, forgetting a public holiday, etc, etc is irrelevant in these exact circumstances. Of course deadlines may be missed due to force majeure, ... See more Now that we have more of the facts, I would say that the translator:
a) agreed to provide a translation
b) agreed to a deadline
c) agreed to provide a TM
This person delivered on (a) but failed on both the other counts.
Everything else, such as not knowing what a TM is, having a heart-attack or experiencing an earthquake, forgetting a public holiday, etc, etc is irrelevant in these exact circumstances. Of course deadlines may be missed due to force majeure, but that didn't happen (unless we don't have the complete picture here). I have to say that I once missed a deadline for a client elsewhere in the world when we just agreed on EOB rather than giving a GMT/UTC-related deadline but that type of mistake can't explain 3 days' delay. The OP hasn't said that the translator gave a more-or-less plausible reason for the delay.
Jessica Noyes wrote:
I suggest you ask the translator what kind of discount he/she/they plan/s to offer for the late delivery. Mention the inconvenience to you, the extra time to create the TM, etc. This takes you out of the role of meter-out of punishment, and allows the translator to save face. Offering a discount is very different from being "fined," "docked," or "penalized." We are wordsmiths after all, so we know that the terms that are chosen in any circumstance are very important. So first give the person a chance to voluntarily make good on the situation.
That sounds to me the perfect next step. You're going to be on dodgy legal ground (I think) if you just pay nn% of the invoice and the translator decides to fight for 100%. Much better to have the whole audit trail of you being totally reasonable, just not wanting to pay in full for a service you didn't receive in full. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Zhihua Liu
Čína
Local time: 15:41
angličtina -> čínština
+ ...
| Try to negotiate and prepare for the worst | Apr 18, 2013 |
The suggestions above are very useful, you may negotiate with the translator for some reduction. If they agree, that's fine, or they will risk their reputation.
Also, in the future, remember to specify the reduction for such cases in the agreement.
In my opinion, "Koubei" (as Chinese refer to "credit" or "reputation") is the most important in business. If one accepted the conditions, he should act as promised. If he fails, he should pay the price.
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not to put too fine a point on it but I think that the asker's point about the TM was that the translator did not USE the TM, not that the translator did not HAND IN a TM. Handing in a TM is not a big deal since the asker will still have a source and target file and will be able to make a TM out of these.
Perhaps using a TM was necessary for concordance purposes and the translator did not use it, meaning that the asker now has to seriously polish up the resulting text to ensure concordance... See more not to put too fine a point on it but I think that the asker's point about the TM was that the translator did not USE the TM, not that the translator did not HAND IN a TM. Handing in a TM is not a big deal since the asker will still have a source and target file and will be able to make a TM out of these.
Perhaps using a TM was necessary for concordance purposes and the translator did not use it, meaning that the asker now has to seriously polish up the resulting text to ensure concordance with previous texts/the client's terminology.
I also agree that not meeting a deadline is unforgivable under the circumstances (translator claimed that all was well when asked - AND the deadline was missed by 3 DAYS!!! (not by a couple of hours or so)).
I agree with asking the translator what the translator thinks is a fair and reasonable discount under the circumstances - with a counter-argument in place. Given that this translator seems to think that it's fair and reasonable to miss a deadline by three days with no prior warning/apology, I think it's fair and reasonable to expect that this translator is probably not fair and reasonable and will therefore expect to be paid in full, thinking that nothing is amiss.
I would personally divide the fee by 10 (days), multiply this figure by 3 (days late) and offer to pay the resulting sum.
I have admittedly never had to deal with this kind of thing before, never having outsourced and never having missed a deadline either. ▲ Collapse
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John Fossey
Kanada
Local time: 03:41
Člen (2008)
francouzština -> angličtina
+ ...
| Force majeure | Apr 18, 2013 |
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
What if the translator fell ill (unexpectedly), or had some unforseen emergency like a death in the family, which prevented him/her from completing the job on time?
I myself, who make a fetish of meeting deadlines, have had external agencies coming in my way of indulging my fetish. In one case - I was in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, at that time - it was an earthquake of magnitude 7.9 which broke all contact with the external world for me for days. Of course I missed many deadlines at that time. I was literally living on the streets as people were afraid to go into their homes because of the aftershocks.
What you are describing is force majeure. Force majeure is always a valid excuse for late delivery, by the very fact that it is out of the party's control, in spite his best efforts to comply, extremely rare and unforeseeable. It's not the case here, though.
[Edited at 2013-04-18 10:49 GMT]
| | | | | Add expenses for polishing | Apr 18, 2013 |
Marie-Helene Dubois wrote:
not to put too fine a point on it but I think that the asker's point about the TM was that the translator did not USE the TM, not that the translator did not HAND IN a TM. Handing in a TM is not a big deal since the asker will still have a source and target file and will be able to make a TM out of these.
Perhaps using a TM was necessary for concordance purposes and the translator did not use it, meaning that the asker now has to seriously polish up the resulting text to ensure concordance with previous texts/the client's terminology.
This is what I was thinking too. If the translator did not use the TM, the translation would have to be double checked to ensure consistency with previous translations. I would deduct the extra costs this would generate.
| | | | Kay Denney
Francie
Local time: 09:41
francouzština -> angličtina
John Fossey wrote:
Balasubramaniam L. wrote:
What if the translator fell ill (unexpectedly), or had some unforseen emergency like a death in the family, which prevented him/her from completing the job on time?
I myself, who make a fetish of meeting deadlines, have had external agencies coming in my way of indulging my fetish. In one case - I was in Ahmedabad, Gujarat, at that time - it was an earthquake of magnitude 7.9 which broke all contact with the external world for me for days. Of course I missed many deadlines at that time. I was literally living on the streets as people were afraid to go into their homes because of the aftershocks.
What you are describing is force majeure. Force majeure is always a valid excuse for late delivery, by the very fact that it is out of the party's control, in spite his best efforts to comply, extremely rare and unforeseeable. It's not the case here, though. [Edited at 2013-04-18 10:49 GMT]
I agree fully and would add that force majeure wasn't what you were talking about in the post Kim reacted to. Back then you suggesting leniency for a translator getting muddled up because of public holidays falling on different days in different parts of the world. That is absolutely no excuse for late delivery.
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