| Stran v tématu: < [1 2] | Lionbridge's Translation Workspace: a letter voicing concerns Autor vlákna: Cruz Losada
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| Lionbridge's Translation Workspace: a letter voicing concerns | Apr 21, 2010 |
Krzysztof Kajetanowicz wrote:
Laurent KRAULAND wrote:
1) Any customer representing more than 10 to 20% of a freelancer's turnover is an actual threat.
2) Accepting too much work from a single source hinders freelancers from looking for better-paying customers.
3) Working for such entities fuels the commoditization trend, which comes with both declining rates and lower quality.
Good point but surely Liox has done a lot to help translators realize what a bad strategy this is. Remember, few people who know a foreign language to a degree that allows translation are complete and utter idiots. They don't need to be told.
I am not saying that we should ignore colleagues dealing with difficult situations. My worst-case hypothesis is that those colleagues are taken as "hostages" and that this petition is a sign of some kind of Stockholm syndrome - cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
They certainly need our help, but not in the way they want it.
I'm not sure how good you are at mind reading, Laurent.
From my experience with Liox, the company just does a lot of things that make no sense, as if the people that make the decisions actually didn't think. For instance, sometimes they tell you to "not review locked 100% matches" (because we won't pay you) but "please edit them if you accidentally (sic!) notice something wrong". Now, I don't need to tell you that the matches are often nonsense, due to context, but that the translators turn their head the other way and "fail" to notice mistakes in segments that they are not paid to specifically review. That's how garbage is born. However, a person who is less important, such as a PM, might actually realize how absurd it is and indeed pay you for doing the locked segments. "I'll reason with him", said Don Vito Corleone, and it worked.
This also means that whoever has made this highly political corporate decision of charging translators $14 a month, likely does not think. As a result, a letter may not be such a bad idea. While I don't like the "please don't, please don't" attitude, it might actually work with whoever is on the other side.
Don Vito Corleone said I'm going to make him an offer he can't refuse. And it worked too... By the way, I newer accepted to work with the Lionbridge system as they never clarified translation memory property and privacy issues.
[Editado a las 2010-04-21 19:09 GMT]
| | | | | So many things, so little time | Apr 22, 2010 |
... By the way, I newer accepted to work with the Lionbridge system as they never clarified translation memory property and privacy issues.
I once investigated working for Lionbridge - I guess I was actually signed up with them (I still get their eMails) - but I remember when they sent around that "new" vendor contract, and I was looking and looking, and there were so many things that just did not seem quite right...
And funnily enough, this was exactly one of the issues that kept me from signing, too!
Which in itself is a bit odd, because there are lots of times I "sign away my rights" - but I always read the contract and always assure myself that the terms for doing so are acceptable, and sometimes I even change these and send the changes back to the potential client.
With L, there were just so many little things I didn't like about their contract, and I got the impression they were not going to accept changes. I never could bring myself to sign.
And so many things have gotten worse since then - every time I read their mails I congratulate myself again for not signing!
| | | | Rahzeb
Local time: 08:22
angličtina
| Elena Accinelli 
Španělsko
Local time: 08:22
angličtina -> španělština
+ ...
| agree with Maruja and Pablo | Apr 29, 2010 |
I do not believe that the letter is in any way 'subservient' as some of you have hinted at. On the contrary, I think it conveys the intended message in a polite manner (after all, as they say in Spain, 'lo cortés no quita lo valiente'), and perfectly reflects the Anglosaxon way of drafting.
Whether it will achieve anything at all or not, that's not for me to say.
Pablo, here we are again, immersed in yet another agency botch job....
I'm thinking of opening a tea room.... See more I do not believe that the letter is in any way 'subservient' as some of you have hinted at. On the contrary, I think it conveys the intended message in a polite manner (after all, as they say in Spain, 'lo cortés no quita lo valiente'), and perfectly reflects the Anglosaxon way of drafting.
Whether it will achieve anything at all or not, that's not for me to say.
Pablo, here we are again, immersed in yet another agency botch job....
I'm thinking of opening a tea room.
Anything that's as far away of translation agencies as possible.
Cheers ▲ Collapse
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| Content and tone | Apr 30, 2010 |
As for the letter itself, perhaps the tone is "polite", but the language it contains does imply a certain subservience, or at a minimum weakness and dependence, which is just as dangerous if not more so:
we feel compelled to highlight again our approach to the issues
What action does this express? Highlighting = emphasizing. So what? What threat does this imply? None. It is simply an expression of an opinion - one that apparently has already been expressed and ignored. So it appears weak. All talk, no action.
we accepted reductions in rates, volume discounts, extensions of payment terms, the assignment of jobs by "auction", and the introduction of new tools and QA procedures at no extra cost. ...We accepted these increasingly challenging conditions almost without complaining.
By restating concessions that were made, this paragraph highlights the weak position of the linguists who took these actions. In a way, it implies that further concessions can be wrung out of linguists in the future if the company just ignores their opinions long enough.
Our professional approach and sense of responsibility urged us to consider this shrinkage in our income as a consequence of the global crisis.
First of all, this takes one person's belief and expresses it as a fact for all - but I wonder if that's true (it certainly wasn't my approach). Second of all, it again emphasizes the linguists' willingness to make concessions. This is counterproductive and highlights their weak position.
We have been told of a number of advantages that subscribers of the new platform will benefit from. We are eager to evaluate them during the 60 days trial period.
Wording is important. Using the word "eager" also implies a kind of weakness. (Look, we can't wait to get our hands on it. Oh please oh please oh please.) If stating this was absolutely necessary, the author should have written something like "When you provide the opportunity to evaluate them, we will be happy to offer our opinion. HOWEVER..."
we felt surprised to learn that we were going to be considered as one of the possible sales channels of this marketing action
Wow, only surprised? Birthday presents are surprises too, but I wouldn't turn one down. How about shocked? Stunned. Amazed. Astounded. Outraged?! Surprised = inconsequential.
Hence our request: suppliers who are planning to use TW exclusively under the Lionbridge tenancy should be given free access to the tool and should be considered simply as system users, possibly being assigned a "light" profile with restricted rights, as necessary.
The word "request" again implies a weak position on the part of the linguists: We have no power to demand, therefore we request. Because it is not a demand, the implication is that there is no threat behind this if it is rejected. The company can ignore the "request" and do whatever it wants, because there will be no repercussions.
This will preserve our reduced margins from further erosion and will make it easier for us to accept jobs from you.
This is the worst of them all. "Preserve our reduced margins"?!?! Why on earth would I want to preserve a reduced margin? This straight out tells the company: I have reduced the level of my own value ('because of the crisis') and I am willing to maintain this reduced level. I will not ask for more, but fearfully defend what I have now. This reeks of weakness.
We are more than willing to maintain and further develop a mutually fruitful relationship with Lionbridge. We are confident that you will appreciate our frankness and that you will be able to respond positively to our request.
More than willing, huh? And what does that imply? I'll let you work it out for yourself. What this paragraph definitely lacks is a "HOWEVER". However, if you do not, we will be forced to... Again, no threat, no power. All fluff.
Yes, it's all terribly polite. But weak and inconsequential. I can understand the urge to join a "joint initiative", but I personally would not have signed this letter. I do not think in this situation that, as Maruja states, "corporate 'loving' language" is appropriate or effective.
so why not play the "poor me, be kind for I am just little" language to try to avoid their absurd and abusive policies?
One reason: Those who care only about profit don't care about those who are little - so it won't work.
| | | | Jennifer Forbes
Local time: 07:22
francouzština -> angličtina
+ ...
In memoriam | Against the forum rules? | Apr 30, 2010 |
I thought the forum rules precluded naming an outsourcer. How come that in this instance Lionbridge is copiously named? I quite agree that their "offer" (which I have also received) is outrageous - expecting us to pay for the privilege of working with their bewildering system - but that's not the point of my question. I'm entirely in favour of naming (and shaming?) them, but I repeat: how is it suddenly OK to name them here?
Keep fighting!
Jenny
| | | | Cruz Losada
Španělsko
Local time: 08:22
angličtina -> španělština
AUTOR TÉMATU | Diplomacy or the sword? | Apr 30, 2010 |
Thanks Janet for taking the time to analise the letter and not just dismiss it as "servile".
In fact I do agree with most of what you say, personally I would have written something quite different, my excitement about it was due to the fact that it was a COLECTIVE RESPONSE (which is something you often don´t see in our quite individualistic professional attitude) to oppose something totally absurd and abusive, which (I think, and I am not the only one) could end up affecting not only fre... See more Thanks Janet for taking the time to analise the letter and not just dismiss it as "servile".
In fact I do agree with most of what you say, personally I would have written something quite different, my excitement about it was due to the fact that it was a COLECTIVE RESPONSE (which is something you often don´t see in our quite individualistic professional attitude) to oppose something totally absurd and abusive, which (I think, and I am not the only one) could end up affecting not only freelancers who work for Tigeroad but the whole translation industry.
For some of the people who wrote and signed this letter, Tigeroad is their main source of income or a big part of it (I will say it again, this is not my case, for me this "fight" is a question of principles, solidarity and possible future repercussions), they are afraid of lunching into a frontal attack which could mean the sudden end of their economic lives.
There are few things in the letter which indicate translators are restless:
Some suppliers took collective actions and contacted their local offices but the only official answer issued by Tigeroad has been a generic e-mail sent out by xxx
YOU IGNORED US
The information we have been given during Webinars was generic and mainly commercial in kind.
YOU FEED US NONSENSE
For the first time, each of us would at the same time be both a supplier and a customer to Tigeroad. This really sounded to the translators community in Europe like a "pay to work" deal.
YOU ARE A GREEDY BUNCH WHO SEEM TO THINK WE ARE (AS WELL AS SUBMISIVE) QUITE STUPID
I know it might not be that much, but it is something, and considering how difficult is to get translators (with all our different levels of anxiety, complacence, distracttion, etc etc) to agree on few points, this is a good achievement. I think there is always time to get nastier.
NOTE: the story you just read is true. Only the names have been changed to protect the innocent. (Thanks Jenny, you might be correct)
[Edited at 2010-04-30 15:11 GMT]
[Edited at 2010-04-30 15:17 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | John Rawlins
Španělsko
Local time: 08:22
španělština -> angličtina
+ ...
| LB is a CAT product supplier | Apr 30, 2010 |
Jenny Forbes wrote:
I thought the forum rules precluded naming an outsourcer. How come that in this instance Lionbridge is copiously named? I quite agree that their "offer" (which I have also received) is outrageous - expecting us to pay for the privilege of working with their bewildering system - but that's not the point of my question. I'm entirely in favour of naming (and shaming?) them, but I repeat: how is it suddenly OK to name them here?
Keep fighting!
Jenny
I understand that LB is now a CAT product supplier (Translation Workspace and so on) as well as an outsourcer. While forum rules prohibit naming outsourcers, they rightly allow product suppliers to be named and discussed.
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| Lionbridge's Translation Workspace: a letter voicing concerns | Apr 30, 2010 |
Elena Accinelli wrote:
I do not believe that the letter is in any way 'subservient' as some of you have hinted at. On the contrary, I think it conveys the intended message in a polite manner (after all, as they say in Spain, 'lo cortés no quita lo valiente'), and perfectly reflects the Anglosaxon way of drafting.
Whether it will achieve anything at all or not, that's not for me to say.
Pablo, here we are again, immersed in yet another agency botch job....
I'm thinking of opening a tea room.
Anything that's as far away of translation agencies as possible.
Cheers
Hi, Elena: Count me in as a customer or as a waiter...
| | | | | At what point "diplomacy" = appeasement? | Apr 30, 2010 |
Maruja, just to address your latest post, I want to say that I really liked your "interpretation" of the portions of the letter that you singled out.
It is exactly those things that I think should actually have been said.
I think the issue that several people (here) have a problem with, is that IF translators have already made all the concessions confessed (and it appears that is a fact), then what value is further diplomacy? What have those linguists who work wi... See more Maruja, just to address your latest post, I want to say that I really liked your "interpretation" of the portions of the letter that you singled out.
It is exactly those things that I think should actually have been said.
I think the issue that several people (here) have a problem with, is that IF translators have already made all the concessions confessed (and it appears that is a fact), then what value is further diplomacy? What have those linguists who work with this company and its technology gotten in return for being so flexible and accepting? Has it truly benefited them to date?
From the outside looking in (and having a great deal of sympathy for my fellow linguists), it appears that one side is trying to be diplomatic, and the other is walking all over them.
Just remember, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different outcome. That can also apply to diplomacy.
I truly hope for all the linguists involved that the effort pays off, despite my doubts. And having said that, I hope that in the meantime they are looking for other clients and work methodologies, because the only thing that I think there is "always time for" is to walk away. ▲ Collapse
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Your trial period is happening now! Lionbridge has already begun to alias projects to "Translation Workspace ready" suppliers. Sign up now to get access to these projects.
So, are any of you being "aliased" projects? 
| | | | Laurent KRAULAND (X)
Francie
Local time: 08:22
francouzština -> němčina
+ ...
| Never too late... | May 18, 2010 |
Janet Rubin wrote:
Your trial period is happening now! Lionbridge has already begun to alias projects to "Translation Workspace ready" suppliers. Sign up now to get access to these projects.
So, are any of you being "aliased" projects?
I have "aliased" LB's e-mails (2 per week, if not more) out of my inbox.
Reason: computer does not like mandatory and downloadable client which only works in Windows.
It is more than time to Think different, else 2012 will be very much like "2012".
[Edited at 2010-05-18 16:19 GMT]
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Péter Tófalvi
Maďarsko
Local time: 08:22
angličtina -> maďarština
+ ...
| Geoworkz: the translation platform of LB | Nov 22, 2011 |
I have subscribed to their service on October 18. They called me on the
phone twice to pay for one year and promised me a discount of 5 euros. I
have told them each time that I will probably not continue to use
their services.
In spite of this, they have billed me 10 euros for the next month on
18 November. They couldn't take the money from PayPal because I
already prohibited automatic payments to them.
It also became clear on that day, tha... See more I have subscribed to their service on October 18. They called me on the
phone twice to pay for one year and promised me a discount of 5 euros. I
have told them each time that I will probably not continue to use
their services.
In spite of this, they have billed me 10 euros for the next month on
18 November. They couldn't take the money from PayPal because I
already prohibited automatic payments to them.
It also became clear on that day, that I must manually cancel
my membership with them on their website. I have done that, but they
sent me another notice that membership cancellation costs another 30
euros.
I won't pay to them anything, of course.
I just wanted to let you know this. ▲ Collapse
| | | | Samuel Murray
Nizozemsko
Local time: 08:22
Člen (2006)
angličtina -> afrikánština
+ ...
| What did you agree to when you subscribed? | Nov 22, 2011 |
Péter Tófalvi wrote:
I have subscribed to their service on October 18. ... I won't pay to them anything, of course.
You may be surprised by the demands for cancellation money, but what does your agreement with them state? I mean, when you subscribed to their service, you must have "agreed" to something. What did those terms and conditions say?
| | | | | | | Stran v tématu: < [1 2] | To report site rules violations or get help, contact a site moderator: You can also contact site staff by submitting a support request » Lionbridge's Translation Workspace: a letter voicing concerns | TM-Town | Manage your TMs and Terms ... and boost your translation business
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