| Pages in topic: [1 2] > | translating for law attorneys? Thread poster: Sophie Medina
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Hello,
I have been translating patents for 18 years now, for agencies worldwide.
For various reasons I would like to work with direct clients.
I have contacted various law attorneys and they simply IGNORE me (in France or abroad). Not even a word to say "we are not interested".
On their websites, they never mention patent translators, though on the PDFs we translate, we very often find their names.
So my questions are, is it possible to work directly with th... See more Hello,
I have been translating patents for 18 years now, for agencies worldwide.
For various reasons I would like to work with direct clients.
I have contacted various law attorneys and they simply IGNORE me (in France or abroad). Not even a word to say "we are not interested".
On their websites, they never mention patent translators, though on the PDFs we translate, we very often find their names.
So my questions are, is it possible to work directly with them? Do they prefer dealing with agencies? Should I insist?
Thanks for any info...
Sophie ▲ Collapse
| | | | Michael Newton 
United States
Local time: 16:30
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Translating for law attorneys | Sep 23, 2022 |
1. Have some business cards made up with name, address, mobile and so forth.
2. Work up a very professional one-page letter than pitches your talents and your experience.
Include: education; list of clients; outstanding cases you have worked on. Utility models as well as patents; office actions; e-
discovery; indicate what technologies you have worked with: electronics, pharmed, mechanical.
it must be succinct and tell the attorney what they want to know i... See more 1. Have some business cards made up with name, address, mobile and so forth.
2. Work up a very professional one-page letter than pitches your talents and your experience.
Include: education; list of clients; outstanding cases you have worked on. Utility models as well as patents; office actions; e-
discovery; indicate what technologies you have worked with: electronics, pharmed, mechanical.
it must be succinct and tell the attorney what they want to know in an instant. Also, include you fee: e.g. USD 0.12 per English word;
USD 30.00 per page; notarization and certification included.
3. Do not email or telephone them. They have enough to do.
4. The one-page advert determines everything. They may not contact you for a while. They can easily throw away the one-page advert
but the business card is something they can hang on to.
5. Do not be shy about your accomplishments. Indicate how you obtained your fluency in French (native speaker, uni).
Good luck!
(Something tells me pharmaceuticals would be lucrative). ▲ Collapse
| | | | | perfect but... | Sep 23, 2022 |
Thanks Michael so, you mean I must visit them and give them my card/advert?
Problem : I live on a small island in the middle of the Indian ocean... my clients are in Europe or USA.
I am not sure giving a piece of paper is better than sending it electronically.
In fact, what I would like to know is how exactly do those IP offices work, how they do their translations (if not internally), how they contact translators (if any), etc.
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 16:30
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Translating for law attorneys | Sep 23, 2022 |
Here are some extra suggestions:
Use the Martindale Hubbell Lawyer Directory for US firms. There may be an equivalent for France, Germany, Europe.
Visit the website and see who handles patents. Usually this is a secretary in charge of selecting translators. You might also select specific attorneys if you see a fit. Do not hesitate to contact women attorneys and they would most likely be glad to assist you.
Do not address the letter to the law firm itself. It will probably go i... See more Here are some extra suggestions:
Use the Martindale Hubbell Lawyer Directory for US firms. There may be an equivalent for France, Germany, Europe.
Visit the website and see who handles patents. Usually this is a secretary in charge of selecting translators. You might also select specific attorneys if you see a fit. Do not hesitate to contact women attorneys and they would most likely be glad to assist you.
Do not address the letter to the law firm itself. It will probably go in file 13. A background in working on patent infringement would be of use. They will probably not be interested in someone who has worked on "just patents" but rather someone who has worked on a full-fledged case, that is, from discovery, document review, translation, office actions, and expert witness, from beginning to end. if you have served as an expert witness in court, so much the better. Portray yourself as a "whole train" rather than a "single car". Be persistent. If you have not heard from them in six months, try again. Law firms to try would be in Silicon Valley, New York, Washington, D.C. and Switzerland. ▲ Collapse
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| Translating for law attorneys | Sep 23, 2022 |
Unfortunately I am not an expert witness and translate "only patents".
But I was asking because my services could have been a way to make them save time, they would just have to review the translations, as we do with Agencies who ask me to translate only and have a review made by a second person, and then send the doc to their "final client"...
I will go on anyway, we know that is is 1 answer for 100 requests!
Have a nice week end
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 16:30
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Translating for law attorneys | Sep 23, 2022 |
"Small island in the middle of the Indian Ocean". Hmmm. Location, location, location. This might be difficult. The law firms I work with oftentimes want me to come in and meet with them, go through documents, see which documents need translating and even appear in court. Since I am located in Boston, this is not difficult. Mobility and availability are important for the firms i work for and I may have to go to New York or Washington at a moment's notice.
You do not have to visit th... See more "Small island in the middle of the Indian Ocean". Hmmm. Location, location, location. This might be difficult. The law firms I work with oftentimes want me to come in and meet with them, go through documents, see which documents need translating and even appear in court. Since I am located in Boston, this is not difficult. Mobility and availability are important for the firms i work for and I may have to go to New York or Washington at a moment's notice.
You do not have to visit them personally. Surely you can mail them a presentation
As for finding out how they work, this is up to you. This is done by networking Every law firm is different. Contact one of the attorneys by letter. Businesses in the US do not like unsolicited emails. Also, many people in law firms are working from home. Your email might end up in the spam folder.
Personal contact is the thing as these firms have hundreds of people on staff. ▲ Collapse
| | | | | Translating for law attorneys | Sep 23, 2022 |
Michael Newton wrote:
"As for finding out how they work, this is up to you. This is done by networking Every law firm is different. Contact one of the attorneys by letter.
but that is the problem, on all the websites I have read, they never mention the translation part of their job, or they talk about their team of lawyers saying Mr XX speaks 2 languages, %s YY speaks 3 languages, etc., assuming that they do the translations themselves.
And when I write, they do not answer 🤨
| | | | Michael Newton
United States
Local time: 16:30
Japanese to English
+ ...
| Law attorneys | Sep 23, 2022 |
"and when I write, they do not answer". We've all been there, Sophie.
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Sadek_A
Local time: 00:30
English to Arabic
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Sophie Medina wrote:
how they do their translations (if not internally), how they contact translators (if any), etc.
What you need to understand is that, more often than not, their outsourcing involves favorism for certain, "close/confidable*" providers (be them individual translators or translation agencies) on the predominant grounds of the commission they (the law agency's POC/SPOC) can secretly get.
Meaning, for instance, that: POC/SPOC pays 40 and receives a bill stating 100.
Witnessed that first hand, wasn't involved in it, but witnessed it happen!
*Not for the content, but for the cut.
| | | | | | jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 16:30
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Lawyers in the US | Sep 23, 2022 |
Lawyers in the US can hire "legal interns" for less than $15 per hour. A lot of new JDs are willing to work as legal interns while they are preparing for bar exams. A lot of legal interns are fully bilingual. They can probably perform as satisfactorily in legal translation as a legal translator, if not better.
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:30
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Don't agree with that | Sep 23, 2022 |
jyuan_us wrote:
They can probably perform as satisfactorily in legal translation as a legal translator, if not better.
I find that, in general, native speakers of Japanese and Chinese are way too confident about their ability to write to a level that would be considered acceptable by native speakers of English. Both of these countries have poor reputations for their foreign language ability, and there are reasons for that. If all you want is gisting, fine. If you want natural English that will stand up to public scrutiny, almost never fine. (In my experience, what most people call bilingualism is usually just being able to speak two languages, as opposed to being able to write both languages to native-speaker level, which is extremely rare.)
I have spent the last several weeks dealing with translated text returned (via the agency) to me by a native speaker of Japanese who is employed by the end client. Her passive understanding of English is, I think, very good. Unfortunately, her active command of the language is much weaker. Even more unfortunately, she doesn't seem to recognise the distinction.
The result is that she has gone through my translations with a fine-tooth comb and made literally hundreds of stylistic changes. Some result in no material difference. Many result in language that is subtly or occasionally clearly "off" (for example misuse of definite and indefinite articles).
It is the cumulative impact of many such minor infractions and infelicities that makes the whole thing feel odd to a native speaker. It is often hard to isolate and explain exactly why the structures used are wrong, but that does not make them any less wrong. It looks like well-written English, but it's not. You can think of it as being the linguistic version of the uncanny valley.
Due to the number of revisions made, I cannot reject and explain each one, so I deal only with the problems that are obvious and easy to explain. The result is that this company will have spent tens of thousands of dollars on an annual report that contains the usual odd Japanese English, despite having paid for native-speaker translation, because their own employee doesn't have the knowledge or self-control to leave well alone.
So, the OP I would say, there is likely a good market for your services, if you can find it. As Michael says, geographical proximity may be important in this niche. I used to get asked to do interpreting in the City quite often, but as I live most of a day's journey from London, it just wasn't practical.
Regards,
Dan
[Edited at 2022-09-23 19:50 GMT]
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jyuan_us
United States
Local time: 16:30
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
| Most legal interns hired by US lawyers, as I know of, translate into their native languages | Sep 23, 2022 |
Dan Lucas wrote: jyuan_us wrote:
They can probably perform as satisfactorily in legal translation as a legal translator, if not better. I find that, in general, native speakers of Japanese and Chinese are way too confident about their ability to write to a level that would be considered acceptable by native speakers of English. Both of these countries have poor reputations for their foreign language ability, and there are reasons for that. If all you want is gisting, fine. If you want natural English that will stand up to public scrutiny, almost never fine. (In my experience, what most people call bilingualism is usually just being able to speak two languages, as opposed to being able to write both languages to native-speaker level, which is extremely rare.) Dan [Edited at 2022-09-23 19:50 GMT]
Also, I never said the lawyers in the US only hire Chinese or Japanese natives to work as legal interns in their law offices. So, your quote of my post may not be that relevant.
Also, when you stated "Both of these countries have poor reputations for their foreign language ability," did you have evidence to support your statement? If not, stop your arrogant judgment.
[Edited at 2022-09-23 20:22 GMT]
[Edited at 2022-09-23 20:23 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:30
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Still not convinced | Sep 23, 2022 |
jyuan_us wrote:
Most of the legal interns hired by the US lawyers translate into their native languages
So, your quote of my post may not be that relevant.
If so, that would indicate a welcome acceptance of their limitations. Unfortunately, I've seen plenty of legalese in English that was clearly not written by native speakers. Maybe it's more of an issue in Japan, but maybe not.
Regards,
Dan
| | | | | Question mis-formulated - ought to read 'working for patent attorneys & agents' | Sep 24, 2022 |
Some law firms - the world over - have inhouse intellectual property (IP) departments dealing with patents and copyright licensing etc. applications.
Try targetting patent agencies direct, say in London & Paris. If you had other lingos, like German (there tends to be fierce compeition for vacancies at the European Patent Office in Munich), Italian or Spanish, especially Dutch/Flemish into French on offer, your chances would certainly improve.
Beware: in the USA - like a... See more Some law firms - the world over - have inhouse intellectual property (IP) departments dealing with patents and copyright licensing etc. applications.
Try targetting patent agencies direct, say in London & Paris. If you had other lingos, like German (there tends to be fierce compeition for vacancies at the European Patent Office in Munich), Italian or Spanish, especially Dutch/Flemish into French on offer, your chances would certainly improve.
Beware: in the USA - like an IP Attorney relative of mine in New York, major UK firms of Solicitors with IP departments or their instructed IP sets of Chancery (!) Barristers' Chambers, the inhouse or out-of-house lawyers / patent attorneys tend to be very busy, have their own favo(u)rites with a proven track record (see previous posts) and/or rather full of themselves and won't respond to earnest entreaties or unsolicited approaches.
[Edited at 2022-09-24 10:44 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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