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学而时习之不亦悦乎
Thread poster: Bill Lao
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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該道歉的是你 Jul 7, 2005

Bill Lao wrote:
...

话说到这里,无论如何,这些话题是要坚决煞住了。但老实说,只要那些网友向我道歉,我就绝不会多说半句。


Bill,

你沒什麼話可說了,該道歉的沒有別人,就是你!

Wenjer

[Edited at 2005-07-07 04:30]


 
Bill Lao
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Thanks a lot, Miss weiwei Jul 7, 2005

weiwei wrote:

I’ve been following a few topics in the forum for a couple of weeks. Things got a little overheated but I did not dare to comment (even though my name came up a couple of times). Afterall I’m the “junior” here and there was definitely no need for one more spoon in the soup. During the weekend I thought these unpleasant episodes were finally dying down, but now they have started again. If my words are worth anything at all…. I say we let it go right here. Isn’t it better to be talking about cars, food, cities (alright, even weather)??


Thank you for these words!


 
Last Hermit
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With all due respect, it is "始作俑者". Jul 15, 2005

Bill Lao wrote:


前几天论坛发生了两起小小的事情,在论坛上引起了一些涟漪,借用一位网友的遣词艺术,就是经历了两起“事件”。

第一起事件是由Yeu先生引起的,即“魂魄事件”。许多人误以为这个事件是由我好几天前的一个帖子引起的,其实不然。我那个短短的帖子上来以后,只引起一个短短的回帖,基本没有人知晓;基本没有人知晓,也就是没有影响力,没有影响也就无所谓事件了。但自从好事者Yeu以“事件”命名以后,便有许多网友追问此事并积极回帖,引起论坛小小的波澜。因此,实际上Yue先生才是事件的始终俑者(我这个说法没有经过Yue先生协商,也不知道他有没有意见)。但这个事件各方都处理很好,令人欣慰。Ms Joce给我回了一个长长的致歉贴子,表现了女性特有的贤良和雍容;Sun发表了长长的议论,表现了自己数十年从事科研工作所形成的认真和探索精神;而事件的始终俑者Yue先生对当事人我始终一言不发,也表现了作为名人和大奖获得者应有的风度。

当事各方的表现令人满意。我尤其要说的一句话的是,Ms Joce着实不应该向我道歉,我心里受不了。

最后,我还想建议Kevin把“我真该道歉吗?”这个帖子及其所有的回帖删除。事情已经过去,留这个与论坛主题有点偏离的帖子有点碍眼。

第二起事件就是我那个“一个词语的翻译悬而未决”的帖子,因为那个帖子贴出以后,很多网友的回帖,也引起论坛小小的波澜。这是个事关学术问题的讨论,但我发现,有些网友并不看重学术,而是钟情于说说某某的导师是什么什么院士,自己怎样从14岁开始就干什么什么,做过那些艰苦的翻译,等等。还有一些网友以家长长辈的身份,在做人做翻译方面对人耳提面命,等等,这些话题虽然不能算是不和谐音,但与话题无关,有时候很令人反感。然而,冷静下来以后,我想,尽管有些网友好为人师,还有的爱有意无意之间炫耀自己的过去怎么牛,但人家可能也就出于好意,或许也为了娱乐活跃气氛,因此,在此一并表示感谢。做人应该以大量为怀,尤其作为高级知识分子,涵养功夫不可无。

作为新人,在忙于商业翻译的同时,花些时间提高个人修养,也不无裨益。

回到那个翻译问题,其实我那个问题很简单,我提出一种认为正确的翻译方法,并为支持这种翻译,提出了三个证据:一是权威词典,二是考虑上下文,三是语文文法。

因此,如果要驳斥我的翻译不正确,只需反驳这三点就行。但很多网友似乎没有意会到这点,而是不着边际,各说各的。最后尽管Sun看出了门道,提出挑战权威的词典的话题,但也只是昙花一现,在我对此进行理性分析,证明他的质疑是错误的以后,就悄无消息了(临阵逃脱?)。

其实,我个人认为,这个小小的词语的翻译不需要太多的知识和经验,只凭词典解释和语法知识及理性思维就可得出结论。大家之所以在这点上迷失,大约是存在某个与翻译无关的盲点。


[Edited at 2005-07-06 08:00]


 
ysun
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Last, you have good eyes! Jul 15, 2005

Last Hermit wrote:
With all due respect, it is "始作俑者".


Last,

You have good eyes! You are not only an excellent translator, but also an excellent proofreader! I didn't notice the error “始终俑者” even though it was repeated twice. I even thought that it was copied from mine and therefore I might have been the “始作俑者” of this error. It is true that “学而时习之,不亦悦乎!”


[Edited at 2005-07-15 23:00]


 
Last Hermit
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I feel greatly flattered,though. Jul 16, 2005

I didn't read 毒草 but used to vent my most innocent yet revolutionary anger on them! The first few I read/got infected was "生而知之", "克己复礼" etc.

BTW, it should be "不亦乎" in 孔老二 and his disciples' poisonous weeds?

Yueyin Sun wrote:

Last Hermit wrote:
With all due respect, it is "始作俑者".


Last,

You have good eyes! You are not only an excellent translator, but also an excellent proofreader! I didn't notice the error “始终俑者” even though it was repeated twice. I even thought that it was copied from mine and therefore I might have been the “始作俑者” of this error. It is true that “学而时习之,不亦悦乎!”


[Edited at 2005-07-15 23:00]


[Edited at 2005-07-16 02:21]

[Edited at 2005-07-16 02:23]


 
Bill Lao
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粗忽了! Jul 16, 2005

哈哈,读隐士这个帖子,一开始莫名其妙,等到明白什么意思以后,禁不住哈哈哈大笑起来。隐士这个举误举得好呀!

大约从我对某一个词语的翻译提出不同的意见起,在论坛上我就被人骂作是不谦虚者,甚至受到一些人的围攻,有的还拿院士、全国某某领域第一学者的头衔,拿出14岁时的经历吓唬我,对此我一直不以为然。现实生活中我一向以谦虚见称。从隐士这个举谬这个事件我的反应可以看出来,我是虚怀若谷、纳谏如流,乐于听取别人的意见的。而不像一些人,一听到别人对自己的翻译提出异议,或有不同意见,就勃然大怒,大骂出口,以为别人挑战自己、挑战“权威”!


[Edited at 2005-07-16 07:34]


 
Bill Lao
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汉语拼音打字往往不注意就容易出错, Jul 16, 2005

汉语拼音打字往往不注意就容易出错,比如“不亦乐乎”误成“不亦悦乎”,始作俑者误成始终俑者,等等。

 
ysun
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You are right! Jul 16, 2005

Last Hermit wrote:

it should be "不亦乎"


So, should the title of this forum “学而时习之不亦乎” be changed again?

[Edited at 2005-07-16 13:28]


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
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古文 "說" 與今文之 "悅" 相通 Jul 16, 2005

Last Hermit wrote:
I didn't read 毒草 but used to vent my most innocent yet revolutionary anger on them! The first few I read/got infected was "生而知之", "克己复礼" etc.

BTW, it should be "不亦乎" in 孔老二 and his disciples' poisonous weeds?


"始終俑者" 當然是 "始作俑者" 之誤,但 "不亦說乎" 和 "不亦悅乎" 是相通的,因古文 "說" 與今文之 "悅" 相通。


 
Libin PhD
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Stop it, Bill Jul 16, 2005

Bill, Please stop it. 你究竟要到什么时候才算完?无聊不无聊?

Bill Lao wrote:

哈哈,读隐士这个帖子,一开始莫名其妙,等到明白什么意思以后,禁不住哈哈哈大笑。隐士这个举误举得好呀!

大约从我对某人的一个词语翻译提出不同意见起,在论坛上我就被人骂作是不谦虚者,甚至受到一些人的围攻,有的还拿院士、全国某某领域第一学者的头衔,拿出14岁时的经历吓唬我,对此我一直不以为然。现实生活中我一向以谦虚见称。从隐士这个举谬事件可以看出来,我是虚怀若谷、纳谏如流,乐于听取别人的意见的。而不像一些人,一听到别人对自己的翻译提出异议,或有不同意见,就勃然大怒,大骂出口,以为别人挑战自己、挑战“权威”!


[Edited at 2005-07-16 06:35]


 
Bill Lao
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good saying! Jul 16, 2005

Libin, Ph.D. wrote:

Bill, Please stop it. 你究竟要到什么时候才算完?无聊不无聊?

Bill Lao wrote:

哈哈,读隐士这个帖子,一开始莫名其妙,等到明白什么意思以后,禁不住哈哈哈大笑。隐士这个举误举得好呀!

大约从我对某人的一个词语翻译提出不同意见起,在论坛上我就被人骂作是不谦虚者,甚至受到一些人的围攻,有的还拿院士、全国某某领域第一学者的头衔,拿出14岁时的经历吓唬我,对此我一直不以为然。现实生活中我一向以谦虚见称。从隐士这个举谬事件可以看出来,我是虚怀若谷、纳谏如流,乐于听取别人的意见的。而不像一些人,一听到别人对自己的翻译提出异议,或有不同意见,就勃然大怒,大骂出口,以为别人挑战自己、挑战“权威”!


[Edited at 2005-07-16 06:35]


good saying, Mr Li。stop here,everybody!


 
Last Hermit
Last Hermit
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Then hair-splitting continues... Jul 16, 2005

纳谏如流? The true Emperor who did so has forever died^)^. He caught myriads of Snakes and killed them.

Bill Lao wrote:

哈哈,读隐士这个帖子,一开始莫名其妙,等到明白什么意思以后,禁不住哈哈哈大笑。隐士这个举误举得好呀!

大约从我对某人的一个词语翻译提出不同意见起,在论坛上我就被人骂作是不谦虚者,甚至受到一些人的围攻,有的还拿院士、全国某某领域第一学者的头衔,拿出14岁时的经历吓唬我,对此我一直不以为然。现实生活中我一向以谦虚见称。从隐士这个举谬事件可以看出来,我是虚怀若谷、纳谏如流,乐于听取别人的意见的。而不像一些人,一听到别人对自己的翻译提出异议,或有不同意见,就勃然大怒,大骂出口,以为别人挑战自己、挑战“权威”!


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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Will you cut it off? Jul 16, 2005

Last Hermit wrote:
纳谏如流? The true Emperor who did so has forever died^)^. He caught myriads of Snakes and killed them.


Hi, Last Hermit!

Will you please cut it off? We all know the capacity and temperament of each and every one of us. So, just leave Bill alone. Thanks! (Everybody would appreciate that.)

Wenjer


 
Last Hermit
Last Hermit
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Sorry but I don't want to cut it off. Jul 16, 2005

I want to cut it OUT^)^

Wenjer Leuschel wrote:

Last Hermit wrote:
纳谏如流? The true Emperor who did so has forever died^)^. He caught myriads of Snakes and killed them.


Hi, Last Hermit!

Will you please cut it off? We all know the capacity and temperament of each and every one of us. So, just leave Bill alone. Thanks! (Everybody would appreciate that.)

Wenjer


 
Wenjer Leuschel (X)
Wenjer Leuschel (X)  Identity Verified
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I don't really care. Jul 16, 2005

Last Hermit wrote:
I want to cut it OUT^)^


I don't really care whether you cut it off or cut it out. Just cut and that will be it!


 
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学而时习之不亦悦乎






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