préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit

English translation: forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit
English translation:forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...
Entered by: Scott de Lesseps

22:55 Oct 15, 2018
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Business/Commerce (general) / Haitian French
French term or phrase: préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit
From a summons:

“Un fermier ne peut jamis préscrire contre son bailleur par quelque laps que ce soit selon l’article 2004
du code civil d’HAITI. [Company X] a cessé de payer à partifr de 1923 ayant été achetée par la compagnie[Company Y] et solidairement avec les autres compagnies impliquées dans l’escroquerie la plus scandaleuse et inqualifiable du vingtième siècle et aussi les administratuers [Company X] doivent tirer leur révérence et remettre à CESAR ce qui APPARTIENT à CESAR …. »

I think "fermier" means "leaseholder" in this context.

I found this other Kudoz question, but I'm still not sure which one of those answers is best for this text. Target audience is US. Thanks.

https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/216...
Scott de Lesseps
United States
Local time: 09:56
forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...
Explanation:

.... interdisant à un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur
=
.... that is forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, no matter how long is the time elapsed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 20 hrs (2018-10-18 19:31:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


another term also used, that could apply here, is "adverse possession":

.... that is forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership over rented land by adverse possession, no matter how long is the time elapsed.


Adverse possession, sometimes colloquially described as "squatter's rights",[a] is a legal principle that applies when a person who does not have legal title to a piece of property—usually land (real property)—attempts to claim legal ownership based upon a history of possession or occupation of the land without the permission of its legal owner.

In general, a property owner has the right to recover possession of their property from unauthorized possessors through legal action such as ejectment. However, in the English common law tradition, courts have long ruled that when someone occupies a piece of property without permission and the property's owner does not exercise their right to recover their property for a significant period of time, not only is the original owner prevented from exercising their right to exclude, but an entirely new title to the property springs up in the adverse possessor. In effect, the adverse possessor becomes the property's new owner.[b] Over time, legislatures have created statutes of limitations that specify the length of time that owners have to recover possession of their property from adverse possessors. In the United States, for example, these time limits vary widely between individual states, ranging from as low as five years to as many as 40 years.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:56
Grading comment
This makes sense and seems coorect to me. Thank you to everyone.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 -1forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...
Daryo
3 -1claim against the lessor for any (and all) lapses that may arise
David Hollywood
Summary of reference entries provided
Fermier et fermage
SafeTex
LETTRE OUVERTE AUX HONORABLES JUGES DE LA COUR DE CASSATION DE LA REPUBLIQUE D’ HAITI
Daryo

Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
claim against the lessor for any (and all) lapses that may arise


Explanation:
maybe

David Hollywood
Local time: 10:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 55

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: the claim is not "for" any (and all) lapses that may arise, but it's a claim on land ownership "based on / on the grounds of" elapsed time of de facto possession, however long that time period might be.
14 hrs
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16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
interdisant à un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur
forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, ...


Explanation:

.... interdisant à un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur
=
.... that is forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership by prescription against the land owner, no matter how long is the time elapsed.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 20 hrs (2018-10-18 19:31:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


another term also used, that could apply here, is "adverse possession":

.... that is forbidding a tenant from claiming ownership over rented land by adverse possession, no matter how long is the time elapsed.


Adverse possession, sometimes colloquially described as "squatter's rights",[a] is a legal principle that applies when a person who does not have legal title to a piece of property—usually land (real property)—attempts to claim legal ownership based upon a history of possession or occupation of the land without the permission of its legal owner.

In general, a property owner has the right to recover possession of their property from unauthorized possessors through legal action such as ejectment. However, in the English common law tradition, courts have long ruled that when someone occupies a piece of property without permission and the property's owner does not exercise their right to recover their property for a significant period of time, not only is the original owner prevented from exercising their right to exclude, but an entirely new title to the property springs up in the adverse possessor. In effect, the adverse possessor becomes the property's new owner.[b] Over time, legislatures have created statutes of limitations that specify the length of time that owners have to recover possession of their property from adverse possessors. In the United States, for example, these time limits vary widely between individual states, ranging from as low as five years to as many as 40 years.
...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_possession

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 166
Grading comment
This makes sense and seems coorect to me. Thank you to everyone.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  GILLES MEUNIER: vous confondez bailleur et locataire
2 days 23 hrs
  -> FYI there is such a thing as a "tenant" renting just land, it doesn't apply only to buildings. There are basics you won't find explained in any glossary ...
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Reference comments


8 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Fermier et fermage

Reference information:
Hello

See my reference and do a word search for "fermier" and "fermage" and note in particular page 10

Seems to be an occupant of the land for several generations without papers but convinced the land is theirs.


    https://www.land-links.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/USAID_Land_Tenure_2014_Haiti_Training_Module_5_Presentation_1_Dorner.pdf
SafeTex
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 47
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks, SafeTex. This is my understanding also. So do you think "ownership by precription" could work here and then something like "through any period of time"?


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Daryo: useful, but far more relevant references can be found
7 hrs
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15 hrs
Reference: LETTRE OUVERTE AUX HONORABLES JUGES DE LA COUR DE CASSATION DE LA REPUBLIQUE D’ HAITI

Reference information:
LETTRE OUVERTE AUX HONORABLES JUGES DE LA COUR DE CASSATION DE LA REPUBLIQUE D’ HAITI

AU CONSEIL SUPERIEUR DE LA MAGISTRATURE

AU BATONNIER DE L’ORDRE DES AVOCATS DU BARREAU DE PORT-AU-PRINCE


Déontologie judiciaire et Ethique professionnelle s’imposent


Le 7 Mai 1996, le Tribunal de PREMIERE INSTANCE de Port-au-Prince, rendit un jugememt en faveur des héritiers SOUFFRANT et condamna la compagnie américaine HASCO a‘ déguerpir des lieux et a’ payer des dommages-intérets .

Grégory MEVS prétendant étre Président de Hasco et Huguette MEVS en tant que Vice-Président de la compagnie , tous deux interjetérent Appel devant la COUR d’Appel de Port-au-Prince contre ce jugement de Premiére instance.

La COUR d’APPEL par son Arrét de 1997 déclarera HASCO propriétaire des terres des SOUFFRANT sur l’habitation ‘’LAMORINIERE’’ de la Plaine du Cul de sac , de la Croix des Bouquets, sous le fallacieux prétexte que HASCO les avait obtenues par prescription de plus de Vingt ans , faisant fi de l’article 2004 du code civil d’HAITI, interdisant a un fermier par quelque laps de temps que ce soit de prescrire contre son bailleur.

La Cour d’Appel osa méme condamner les demandeurs SOUFFRANT a‘ des dommages-intéréts pour abus du droit d’assigner.

La COUR de CASSATION, haut lieu du droit, par son ARRET rendu en 1997, confirma l’Arrét de la Cour d’APPEL de PORT-AU-PRINCE.

La cause des SOUFFRANT ÉTAIT PERDUE et HASCO CONTINUA a jouir impunément des terres
....

http://www.forumhaiti.com/t2407-dossiers-corruption#


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Note added at 15 hrs (2018-10-16 14:49:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

in plain speak: a tenant [there is no "leaseholder" outside of Common law legal system] can never claim to have acquired "ownership by prescription" on the rented land, according to this "article 2004 du code civil d’HAITI".

Daryo
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 166
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you, Daryo.

Asker: Great, that's how I understood it, thanks. And then something along the lines of: "through any period of elapsed time", or "by virtue of any period of elapsed time"?

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