Glossary entry (derived from question below)
Spanish term or phrase:
patio inglés
English translation:
sunken forecourt
Added to glossary by
Justin Peterson
Feb 14, 2016 05:36
8 yrs ago
16 viewers *
Spanish term
Spain
patio inglés
Spanish to English
Other
Architecture
A very clear explanation here in Spanish:
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_inglés
But what is it in English?
I do think it is an "English patio" (run an image search), a patio, front yard, or forecourt, the only specialised term I've found.
https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patio_inglés
But what is it in English?
I do think it is an "English patio" (run an image search), a patio, front yard, or forecourt, the only specialised term I've found.
Proposed translations
(English)
| 3 +1 | sunken forecourt |
Parrot
|
| 4 +4 | (front) area (UK) / areaway (US) / front basement yard |
Charles Davis
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| 3 | opened semi-basement |
Denis Zabelin
|
| 3 | porch or patio |
patinba
|
References
| area |
Yvonne Gallagher
|
Proposed translations
+1
5 hrs
Selected
sunken forecourt
I'd say "courtyard" if it didn't create too many false expectations.
In many cases (old buildings) it simply came about as the result of a rising street levels due to landfill.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2016-02-14 10:49:27 GMT)
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Sorry, "rising Street levels" without the "a"
In many cases (old buildings) it simply came about as the result of a rising street levels due to landfill.
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Note added at 5 hrs (2016-02-14 10:49:27 GMT)
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Sorry, "rising Street levels" without the "a"
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
Robert Carter
: Forecourt is what I would call it, but as a said above, I'm not sure if it isn't just a regionalism. I would have said it's a "basement forecourt".
10 hrs
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4 KudoZ points awarded for this answer.
Comment: "After looking at all the options ... I do think it is a "forecourt""
+4
3 hrs
(front) area (UK) / areaway (US) / front basement yard
In Britain it's simply called the "area". There is a consensus about this in the following discussion, with many British contributors agreeing that that's the word:
"What is the name of the sunken area in front of a Victorian terraced house?"
http://little-details.livejournal.com/3315528.html
"In architecture, an area (areaways in North America) is an excavated, subterranean space around the walls of a building, designed to admit light into a basement, often providing access to the house for tradesmen and deliveries and access to vaults beneath the pavement for storage of coal and ash."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_(architecture)
"A subterranean lightwell at the front of a building to provide light to a basement is called an area (or areaway in North American usage)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightwell#Area_or_areaway
I've never heard of an "areaway" myself and I can't vouch for it, but it may be used in American English.
But depending on the context "area" might not make the meaning clear. The more descriptive expression "front basement yard" is used in some British planning and estate agency sources:
"New stairway to access the front basement yard. | 13 Gerald Road London SW1W 9EH "
http://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/online-applications/applica...
"DESIGN ACCESS STATEMENT :
18 Belgrave Crescent, Bath, BA1 5JU
This application is for small single storey extension to the existing toilet facility in the front basement yard."
http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/WAM/doc/BackGround Papers-737018.p...
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-02-14 08:52:51 GMT)
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"English patio" would mean nothing to a British reader; at least, it wouldn't make me think of this sort of yard. "Forecourt" has a different meaning. "Front yard" alone doesn't imply a lower level. "Front lightwell" would be accurate, I suppose, though I don't think anyone would call it that.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2016-02-14 09:08:24 GMT)
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It's not always a basement; it can be a semi-basement, since the ground floor of houses that have these is quite often above street level. But we need a term that applies to a yard below ground level, since that's what "inglés" means, according to your Wikipedia page:
"Técnicamente no importa la cota del suelo del patio, siempre que esté bajo la rasante del terreno se denominará inglés."
"What is the name of the sunken area in front of a Victorian terraced house?"
http://little-details.livejournal.com/3315528.html
"In architecture, an area (areaways in North America) is an excavated, subterranean space around the walls of a building, designed to admit light into a basement, often providing access to the house for tradesmen and deliveries and access to vaults beneath the pavement for storage of coal and ash."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Area_(architecture)
"A subterranean lightwell at the front of a building to provide light to a basement is called an area (or areaway in North American usage)."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightwell#Area_or_areaway
I've never heard of an "areaway" myself and I can't vouch for it, but it may be used in American English.
But depending on the context "area" might not make the meaning clear. The more descriptive expression "front basement yard" is used in some British planning and estate agency sources:
"New stairway to access the front basement yard. | 13 Gerald Road London SW1W 9EH "
http://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/online-applications/applica...
"DESIGN ACCESS STATEMENT :
18 Belgrave Crescent, Bath, BA1 5JU
This application is for small single storey extension to the existing toilet facility in the front basement yard."
http://www.bathnes.gov.uk/WAM/doc/BackGround Papers-737018.p...
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2016-02-14 08:52:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"English patio" would mean nothing to a British reader; at least, it wouldn't make me think of this sort of yard. "Forecourt" has a different meaning. "Front yard" alone doesn't imply a lower level. "Front lightwell" would be accurate, I suppose, though I don't think anyone would call it that.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2016-02-14 09:08:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
It's not always a basement; it can be a semi-basement, since the ground floor of houses that have these is quite often above street level. But we need a term that applies to a yard below ground level, since that's what "inglés" means, according to your Wikipedia page:
"Técnicamente no importa la cota del suelo del patio, siempre que esté bajo la rasante del terreno se denominará inglés."
Peer comment(s):
| agree |
neilmac
: I remember hearing "patio" on US sitcoms as a child and wondering what the heck it was. Ditto "gazebo"...
16 mins
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I don't think I'd ever heard of patios back then either, and I still have to check what a gazebo is! There's no way anyone would call this a patio in Britain, IMO. Thanks, Neil :)
|
|
| agree |
Cristina Gonzalez
: The term "patio inglés" is commonly used among Spanish architects to refer to this area.
6 hrs
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It makes it sounds quite picturesque. In practice, from my memory, these areas are often damp and messy. Thanks, Cristina :)
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| agree |
patinba
: Late, but for the record, I have just read an article by Penelope Lively in an old Spectator in which she states "The vault opens onto the area - mine is the last generation to know that is what you call the space between the basement and the pavement"
65 days
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Thanks, Pat, much appreciated :)
|
|
| agree |
Yvonne Gallagher
: Also late to this but fully agree with "area" as does Joyce. I've posted a ref. for future searches.
169 days
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Well, that's good enough for me. Thanks, you've made my day!
|
3 hrs
Denis Zabelin
Belarus
Belarus
Specializes in field
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professional and reliable
Native in: Belarusian 
, Russian
Works in: Spanish to Russian, English to Russian, English to Spanish, and 7 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
4
opened semi-basement
Opinion
1 day 6 hrs
porch or patio
As you can see from asker's link, these are very small spaces designed to provide access to basement flats, with not much room for more than a flower-pot or two and the empty milk bottles. I think "yard" and "forecourt" would apply to much larger areas.
Reference comments
169 days
Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Ireland
Native in English
Ireland
right word, right place. everytime
Native in: English (Variants: US, Canadian, Irish, UK) 
Works in: French to English, Spanish to English, English, and 1 more.
Related KudoZ points
:
28
Reference:
area
Rather late to this but just for future reference...I fully agree with Charles and think of "forecourt" as something quite different and not sunken either.
The railed-off (semi-basement) area, particularly in front of Georgian (18th century) and Victorian (19th) houses with iron railings and often steps leading
Here is a particularly nice extract from "Ulysses" and what better recommendation for a word?! By the way, this episode is iin the form of catechism questions
http://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/ulysses/17/
..."What action did Bloom make on their arrival at their destination?
At the housesteps of the 4th of the equidifferent uneven numbers, number 7 Eccles street, he inserted his hand mechanically into the back pocket of his trousers to obtain his latchkey.
Was it there?
It was in the corresponding pocket of the trousers which he had worn on the day but one preceding.
Why was he doubly irritated?
Because he had forgotten and because he remembered that he had reminded himself twice not to forget.
What were then the alternatives before the, premeditatedly (respectively) and inadvertently, keyless couple?
To enter or not to enter. To knock or not to knock.
Bloom's decision?
A stratagem. Resting his feet on the dwarf wall, he climbed over the area railings, compressed his hat on his head, grasped two points at the lower union of rails and stiles, lowered his body gradually by its length of five feet nine inches and a half to within two feet ten inches of the area pavement, and allowed his body to move freely in space by separating himself from the railings and crouching in preparation for the impact of the fall.
Did he fall?
By his body's known weight of eleven stone and four pounds in avoirdupois measure, as certified by the graduated machine for periodical selfweighing in the premises of Francis Fraedman, pharmaceutical chemist of 19 Frederick street, north, on the last feast of the Ascension, to wit, the twelfth day of May of the bissextile year one thousand nine hundred and four of the Christian era (jewish era five thousand six hundred and sixtyfour, mohammedan era one thousand three hundred and twentytwo), golden number $, epact 13, solar cycle 9, dominical letters C B, Roman indication 2, Julian period 6617, MXMIV...
The railed-off (semi-basement) area, particularly in front of Georgian (18th century) and Victorian (19th) houses with iron railings and often steps leading
Here is a particularly nice extract from "Ulysses" and what better recommendation for a word?! By the way, this episode is iin the form of catechism questions
http://www.online-literature.com/james_joyce/ulysses/17/
..."What action did Bloom make on their arrival at their destination?
At the housesteps of the 4th of the equidifferent uneven numbers, number 7 Eccles street, he inserted his hand mechanically into the back pocket of his trousers to obtain his latchkey.
Was it there?
It was in the corresponding pocket of the trousers which he had worn on the day but one preceding.
Why was he doubly irritated?
Because he had forgotten and because he remembered that he had reminded himself twice not to forget.
What were then the alternatives before the, premeditatedly (respectively) and inadvertently, keyless couple?
To enter or not to enter. To knock or not to knock.
Bloom's decision?
A stratagem. Resting his feet on the dwarf wall, he climbed over the area railings, compressed his hat on his head, grasped two points at the lower union of rails and stiles, lowered his body gradually by its length of five feet nine inches and a half to within two feet ten inches of the area pavement, and allowed his body to move freely in space by separating himself from the railings and crouching in preparation for the impact of the fall.
Did he fall?
By his body's known weight of eleven stone and four pounds in avoirdupois measure, as certified by the graduated machine for periodical selfweighing in the premises of Francis Fraedman, pharmaceutical chemist of 19 Frederick street, north, on the last feast of the Ascension, to wit, the twelfth day of May of the bissextile year one thousand nine hundred and four of the Christian era (jewish era five thousand six hundred and sixtyfour, mohammedan era one thousand three hundred and twentytwo), golden number $, epact 13, solar cycle 9, dominical letters C B, Roman indication 2, Julian period 6617, MXMIV...
Discussion
An English basement is an apartment on the lowest floor of a building, generally a townhouse or brownstone, which is partially below and partially above ground level and which has its own separate entrance from the rest of the building. The text is referring to the areaway outside the windows and entrance.
"At the front the basement often looked onto a deep void below the street called the ‘area’ "
http://fet.uwe.ac.uk/conweb/house_ages/flypast/section1.htm
"Outside - From the pavement there is a short run of steps up to the front door and iron railings with a gate around the basement forecourt"
http://www.guildproperty.co.uk/property-for-sale/penrith-low...
Dictionary definitions, by and large, support the idea of a forecourt being an open area in front of a large building.
"a sunken space affording access, air, and light to a basement"
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/areaway
http://idoxpa.westminster.gov.uk/online-applications/applica...
NUMBERS 1 TO 31 AND ATTACHED FRONT BASEMENT AREA RAILINGS
https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1...
Alterations to ..., front basement area window and lightwell
http://planningpublicaccess.southdowns.gov.uk/online-applica...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_basement
This site may help:
Q. I’m curious. Is there a word to describe the gated off area in front of the house with stairway leading down? I’m speaking out of ignorance but it seems a lot of Georgian townhouses have this characteristic.
A. I believe you mean the servants entrance to the basement. The servants and tradesmen would never use the main entrance, but would always pass through the gate, go down the stairs and enter through the kitchen. But I’m not sure if there is another name for it besides “servants entrance”.
https://janeaustensworld.wordpress.com/2009/06/03/characteri...