| Stran v tématu: < [1 2] |
Outrageous low rates Autor vlákna: pascie
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| It is a members-only feature... | Sep 26, 2007 |
pascie wrote:
Wrong. It is not a member feature.
This is the message received.
To view the community's rates, you must enter yours first.
How would you as a member know?
I as a non-paying member get this message:
You must be a Platinum member to view the community's rates.
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Maciek Drobka 
Polsko
Local time: 15:14
Člen (2006)
angličtina -> polština
+ ...
| A mind reader? | Sep 26, 2007 |
bale002 wrote:
(...)
Or is it a matter of free and fair competition and we just have to deal with it or ignore it?
You are reading my mind, bale002. Pity so few fellow translators share this opinion. Or so it seems to me.
Maciek
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Buck
Nizozemsko
Local time: 15:14
nizozemština -> angličtina
| You get what you pay for | Sep 26, 2007 |
I'm more curious about the quality of the translation. I'm sure there are some translators who are just glad of the work. However, I agree it may give people the wrong idea about translations and translators.
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pascie
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU | Thank you Buck | Sep 26, 2007 |
For your supportive statement.
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Anik Aminuddin
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> indonéština
+ ...
| That's called free market | Sep 26, 2007 |
You have a choice to ignore that job.
But how low is the rate that you are referring to actually?
If the offered rate is very very low, say, 0.4 cent/word, I'm sure nobody will take it.
But if the rate is in the low range of normal rates, say, 4 cents/word, I'm sure somebody out there will snatch it, but aren't you glad that you don't have to waste your time and your resources working for peanut?
The job poster has the right to pick the translator, be it the... See more You have a choice to ignore that job.
But how low is the rate that you are referring to actually?
If the offered rate is very very low, say, 0.4 cent/word, I'm sure nobody will take it.
But if the rate is in the low range of normal rates, say, 4 cents/word, I'm sure somebody out there will snatch it, but aren't you glad that you don't have to waste your time and your resources working for peanut?
The job poster has the right to pick the translator, be it the lowest bidder or not. And the translator has the right to respond or ignore the posted job.
IMO, if you always produce quality translation and can prove to your clients that you are worth the rate you're asking for, you don't have to worry about not getting any job and don't need to respond to those jobs. ▲ Collapse
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pascie
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU | I don't think you got my point | Sep 26, 2007 |
Like Buck did.
Read her posting.
[Edited at 2007-09-26 23:10]
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Robert Forstag
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 09:14
španělština -> angličtina
+ ...
| I agree with Bale and Maciek: This ought not to be legislated, but... | Sep 27, 2007 |
We need to remember that this is a global site and, therefore, what constitutes a "ridiculous rate" in New York or Amsterdam may look like manna from heaven in Caracas or Mexico City. Yet I do think that, in pairs that are worked in by a pool of translators that could be classified as functioning within a fairly homogenous market, low payers really ought to be exposed. Proz.com is, for obvious reasons, not the place to do this, but this fact need not stop translators from joining forces to estab... See more We need to remember that this is a global site and, therefore, what constitutes a "ridiculous rate" in New York or Amsterdam may look like manna from heaven in Caracas or Mexico City. Yet I do think that, in pairs that are worked in by a pool of translators that could be classified as functioning within a fairly homogenous market, low payers really ought to be exposed. Proz.com is, for obvious reasons, not the place to do this, but this fact need not stop translators from joining forces to establish sites specific to their own pairs and creating their own classification of agencies according to whether they offer good, standard, or sub-standard rates.
To anticipate the question, I would offer the "Spanish-to-English" pair as an example of a language pair whose workers comprise a relatively homogenous market (i.e., translators either residing in developed countries, or living elsewhere but who expect wages in accordance with prevailing US/European/Australian/etc. standards).
[Edited at 2007-09-27 00:57] ▲ Collapse
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Anik Aminuddin
Spojené státy americké
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> indonéština
+ ...
| I know what you meant | Sep 27, 2007 |
I just want to point out that it is a free market and it takes two to tango.
As long as there are steady supply of people who are willing to take a ridiculously low paying job, there will always be this kind of job poster.
Proz.com is not a governing body and it is not the only online place to post a job, so it is unreasonable to expect them to do something about it, let alone enforcing an action.
So, what you as an established translator can do is just ign... See more I just want to point out that it is a free market and it takes two to tango.
As long as there are steady supply of people who are willing to take a ridiculously low paying job, there will always be this kind of job poster.
Proz.com is not a governing body and it is not the only online place to post a job, so it is unreasonable to expect them to do something about it, let alone enforcing an action.
So, what you as an established translator can do is just ignore it and differentiate yourself from the rest of the lowly paid gang.
That's just my 2 cents.
[Edited at 2007-09-27 11:28] ▲ Collapse
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| What about some of the big translation companies/multinationals? | Sep 27, 2007 |
pascie wrote:
unprofessional and unscrupulous people practice in order to break in a market, and therefore, to establish a new set of standards against what the industry has already defined.
This is called by law 'unfair competition'.
Hi pascie,
Sorry for being so frank, but when I read your initial comment (so short), I thought it was just another one of those "low-rate rants", which I usually avoid because they tend to become unconstructive or, like Samuel suggested, they offer no solutions, only complaints.
But then I read the comment from you which I have quoted above and this reminded me of something that rarely gets discussed or mentioned in this rate-related threads.
And that is the fact that it is not necessarily the smaller translation agencies/translators offering trash rates (because they're desperate to be competitive) the ones which have enough power to break the market, but rather some of the BIG translation companies/multinationals whose market-breaking practices are known at least by those who have had some contact with them.
For example, in Spain (one of the EU countries that offers/pays very low translation rates), I know of at least one big multinational/company which "boasted" about how one of their annual objectives was to reduce their rates to eliminate competitors, so that they could get more of the bigger translation projects from big fish such as Microsoft.
So although I can understand why many translators/small translation agencies complain about trash rates and unfair competition, the translation market (like any market in which the science of economics is invoved) is not that simple, so obviously we have to take into account many factors, but especially those related to economic power and free market competition, as mentioned by Anik Aminuddin.
My 2 eurocents* from cloudy/rainy Wiesbaden,
Ivette
*and that is certainly not my translation rate, btw
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pascie
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU | Thank you Ivette | Sep 27, 2007 |
for your supportive statement. We, translators, have to adopt our economic strategy to counter this practice.
We must speak out for our people. Please contact me directly for more details about the Spanish story. As you may have read, I am writing a book based on true facts. It will be very useful. Thank you.
Best,
P.
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| Not really an "expert" | Sep 27, 2007 |
pascie wrote:
for your supportive statement. We, translators, have to adopt our economic strategy to counter this practice.
We must speak out for our people. Please contact me directly for more details about the Spanish story. As you may have read, I am writing a book based on true facts. It will be very useful. Thank you.
Best,
P.
Hi again, pascie,
I'm glad you took my comments so positively, but I think your thread might have had a different reaction in general if you had specified more clearly since the beginning that you were actually interested in writing a book about the rate situation for translators in general. It sounds like a major project and like a serious approach to this topic, so I am sure that it could probably attract many colleagues here in Proz.com, not only me.
I'm no expert, just someone with some years of experience in this profession who has witnessed, like anyone else in a similar situation, all kinds of trends in this market (obviously always depending on the world economy situation), so this is why I tend to be a bit skeptical about these "low-rate rants".
But I promise to write by email as soon as I finish with today's deadlines. Thanks for your kind invitation.
Later,
Ivette
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pascie
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU | Thank you Ivette | Sep 27, 2007 |
I look forward to hearing from you.
Have a nice end of the day.
Pascie from Sunny Florida.
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| guerilla theatre | Sep 27, 2007 |
Jim Tucker wrote:
I occasionally bid on these jobs, and offer a rate of $.50/ word or so. Someone must get the point. No reason to stew over these situations, as there is no coercion involved.
Personally, I think this is a terrific idea and further, that when any of has the time to spare, we should do Just that -- imagine if enough of us were to do this each time, surely the bargain basement offerers would get the idea that their offers were as outrageous than ours ... (for which I suggest .75/word minimum bids)
Pricing is like evolution -- slow to rise up -- so whatever we can do to counter its drop is a good thing --
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pascie
Local time: 09:14
angličtina -> francouzština
+ ...
AUTOR TÉMATU | Thank you Laurie | Sep 27, 2007 |
For your support.
This is interesting to see translators working in language pairs different than mine showing a vivid interest in that matter.
I have hope and confidence that
'Si todos los Hombres la mano se quisieran dar' becomes a reality.
It is not a dream.
Best,
P.
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