| Pages in topic: [1 2 3 4] > | Fake "translators" on Proz - report them? Thread poster: Inez Ulrich
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Inez Ulrich 
Germany
Local time: 23:36
Member (2016)
English to German
+ ...
Hi all,
in the last two weeks I had to deal with two "translators" who both claimed to be native speakers with perfect language skills in their mother tongue. Turns out both are NO native speakers and both are NOT able to work as translators of proofreaders due to their missing skills. Both of them are members on Proz and advertise their skills here. Would you report them to Proz?
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Because there is no point in reporting them. People are free to state or claim whatever they want to on their profile page. There is no Proz rule that says people have to be honest. Simple as that.
| | | | Erik Freitag
Germany
Local time: 23:36
Member (2006)
Dutch to German
+ ...
Dear Inez,
In my (limited) experience, reporting them is futile. Proz is not going to do anything about those people, and frankly, I'm not even sure how they could, as long as fraudsters don't actually present forged certifications or someting like that.
Regards
Erik
| | | | Tom in London
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:36
Member (2008)
Italian to English
Inez Ulrich wrote:
Hi all,
in the last two weeks I had to deal with two "translators" who both claimed to be native speakers with perfect language skills in their mother tongue. Turns out both are NO native speakers and both are NOT able to work as translators of proofreaders due to their missing skills. Both of them are members on Proz and advertise their skills here. Would you report them to Proz?
There are lots of them. Over the past few days, for example, an Italian to English translator, working on a book on an architectural subject, has been asking a lot of Kudoz questions that anyone with basic architectural knowledge would not need to ask. I fear for the book, and for its Author. The translation will be very poor.
There seems to be no way of getting rid of these cheats and charlatans. The only thing one can do is: never help them with their Kudoz questions.
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Samuel Murray
Netherlands
Local time: 23:36
Member (2006)
English to Afrikaans
+ ...
| Sure, why not | Jun 5, 2020 |
Inez Ulrich wrote:
Would you report them to ProZ.com?
Sure, if you have the time.
Go to https://go.proz.com/help , scroll down to the middle of the page, and click the "Submit a support request" button. That lady wearing the red hairband on her wrist will then respond to your report.
[Edited at 2020-06-05 09:35 GMT]
| | | | Dan Lucas
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:36
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
| Why help incompetent competitors? | Jun 5, 2020 |
Tom in London wrote:
There seems to be no way of getting rid of these cheats and charlatans. The only thing one can do is: never help them with their Kudoz questions.
I disengaged from Kudoz because in my pair I was seeing unqualified translators asking basic questions, day after day, on the same subject. As far as I could see they were just going through their project and popping up on Kudoz whenever they bumped into something difficult.
It's one thing to help out a fellow professional struggling with a knotty problem, somebody who may ask one question every few months. It's another thing entirely to help somebody who is misusing Kudoz by using it to cover for their lack of competence to do the job. Why should I put bread in the mouth of such competitors?
Previously I have argued for a restriction to combat this, such as limiting users to two questions a month. Nothing has changed.
Regards,
Dan
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Dan Lucas wrote:
Why help incompetent competitors?
Lots of reasons:
Because someone else will, and they might not get it right.
Because every question asked on KudoZ could be taken as a sign of the translator’s incompetence.
Because of the points, if you rely on ProZ for work.
Out of human kindness.
What have you got to lose? They’re no threat to you and at least they’re asking rather than just botching.
Because every mistranslation is a tiny setback for humankind.
My compromise is only to ignore people who really take the piss with millions of questions.
| | | | | Feedback on WWA | Jun 5, 2020 |
The obvious thing to do would be to leave appropriate feedback on their WWA (if possible – I believe the profile owner has to allow ratings – so if someone does not allow ratings, I would be sceptical).
Proz does not have any supervisory role or power, so reporting them would seem pointless – unless they have presented forged diplomas, as Erik Freitag said.
'Native' doesn't mean 'able to write correct [native language], by the way'. Large numbers of natives have v... See more The obvious thing to do would be to leave appropriate feedback on their WWA (if possible – I believe the profile owner has to allow ratings – so if someone does not allow ratings, I would be sceptical).
Proz does not have any supervisory role or power, so reporting them would seem pointless – unless they have presented forged diplomas, as Erik Freitag said.
'Native' doesn't mean 'able to write correct [native language], by the way'. Large numbers of natives have very poor writing skills in their own language. I regularly report English source errors back to a US manufacturer and the standard of readers' comments in the Danish (broadsheet!) press is incredibly low; some comments are so poorly written that they are incomprehensible.
Even 'diploma' doesn't mean 'error-free'. Some people study theoretical linguistics for years but lack the ability to understand common idiomatic expressions in their source languages. ▲ Collapse
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| Show how many questions made too | Jun 5, 2020 |
Besides showing how many KudoZ translators earn by answering questions, why not showing also how many questions translators make?
In my opinion this would be a meaningful information for outsourcers to vet candidates, and those who make tons of questions a day would think twice before continuing. (Or not?)
Look at the Italian forum any given time almost all days to discover how certain "translators" who seemingly get lots of jobs—even specialized ones—keep asking b... See more Besides showing how many KudoZ translators earn by answering questions, why not showing also how many questions translators make?
In my opinion this would be a meaningful information for outsourcers to vet candidates, and those who make tons of questions a day would think twice before continuing. (Or not?)
Look at the Italian forum any given time almost all days to discover how certain "translators" who seemingly get lots of jobs—even specialized ones—keep asking basic questions or just unload onto others the burden to search the Internet. They don't even bother looking up words in dictionaries in order to save their own time, almost certainly at a much cheaper rate.
They are the worst of our competitors, yet many colleagues are ready to help them.
ProZ administrators, make the KudoZ term translation questions point-less, please!
[Edited at 2020-06-05 22:08 GMT]
[Edited at 2020-06-05 22:20 GMT] ▲ Collapse
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Actually there is a rule. It is called the ProZ Professionnal Guidelines, which many ProZ members have endorsed.
Among other things, they have agreed to "represent their capabilities, credentials and levels of experience honestly and accurately."
https://www.proz.com/professional-guidelines?pg_version=1.3
However, I don't see the point to ... See more Actually there is a rule. It is called the ProZ Professionnal Guidelines, which many ProZ members have endorsed.
Among other things, they have agreed to "represent their capabilities, credentials and levels of experience honestly and accurately."
https://www.proz.com/professional-guidelines?pg_version=1.3
However, I don't see the point to play this game (the game or reporting "fake" "translators").
[Edited at 2020-06-05 21:22 GMT] ▲ Collapse
| | | | | I am afraid this is not possible | Jun 5, 2020 |
Thomas T. Frost wrote:
The obvious thing to do would be to leave appropriate feedback on their WWA (if possible – I believe the profile owner has to allow ratings – so if someone does not allow ratings, I would be sceptical).
Proz does not have any supervisory role or power, so reporting them would seem pointless – unless they have presented forged diplomas, as Erik Freitag said.
'Native' doesn't mean 'able to write correct [native language], by the way'. Large numbers of natives have very poor writing skills in their own language. I regularly report English source errors back to a US manufacturer and the standard of readers' comments in the Danish (broadsheet!) press is incredibly low; some comments are so poorly written that they are incomprehensible.
Even 'diploma' doesn't mean 'error-free'. Some people study theoretical linguistics for years but lack the ability to understand common idiomatic expressions in their source languages.
It seems to me I've seen somewhere that it's impossible to leave poor feedback for a translator - only positive or nothing, at least several years ago. I've seen translators with good WWA whose work was very poor - from not understanding the text to very bad grammar skills. So once I was so furious after having to rewrite the translation almost from scratch instead of proofreading that I was eager to write what I think on the person's profile page. No chance... I reported to the agency, they promised to take actions and still no result - that translator worked till the end of the project. Maybe the matter is cheap rates. One of the agencies I worked with found a new translator to the big ongoing project (one of those who daily asks 10+ KudoZ questions) and asked to approve him. The translation was really poor with numerous stupid mistakes. Several colleagues and I rejected providing the explanations (not simply "we do not like that"). And? The agency approved the guy, then asked for lower rates and the result is that I am not working with them anymore and the guy continues to produce bullshit.
| | | | Baran Keki
Türkiye
Local time: 00:36
Member
English to Turkish
| Those gray N signs | Jun 5, 2020 |
I don't know about fake translators, but I know plenty of fake native English speakers in my language pair. Personally I'm sick of seeing those gray N signs on the profiles of people who give every indication that they've never set foot outside Turkey in their lives. I wonder if that's the case with people in other language pairs.
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| It is possible if the translator allows it | Jun 5, 2020 |
Inna Borymova wrote:
It seems to me I've seen somewhere that it's impossible to leave poor feedback for a translator - only positive or nothing, at least several years ago.
https://www.proz.com/forum/prozcom_translator_coop/319753-new_wwa_rating_service.html#:~:text=ProZ.com%20has%20released%20an,again"%20with%20that%20service%20provider.
18 October 2017:
ProZ.com has released an enhancement to the Willingness to Work Again (WWA) service called WWA ratings. A WWA rating will be a score of 1 to 5 and will express, in more detailed terms an outsourcers' "willingness to work again" with that service provider.
• WWA ratings are permission-based, a service provider will have the option to show (or hide) their entire WWA rating history.
• Outsourcers and clients will have the option to maintain WWA ratings privately for their ProZ.com sourcing activity.
• Clients and outsourcers making a WWA rating will have the option of adding the service provider to their lists of filtered providers.
• More detailed WWA "category ratings" are planned for the future (if there are any category ratings you would like to see, please let us know below).
To leave ratings for service providers simply visit that service providers profile page and click on the "Rate service provider".
At this time outsourcers will not be able to leave WWA ratings if a service provider has chosen to hide their WWA feedback.
| | | | | Recommend them ... | Jun 5, 2020 |
Inez Ulrich wrote: Would you report them to Proz?
... to bottom feeders or agencies, who you refuse to work for any longer for certain reasons and who suddenly are in need and ask you to recommend them a colleague.
| | | | DZiW (X)
Ukraine
English to Russian
+ ...
| Rules & Exceptions | Jun 5, 2020 |
A child of five may sincerely believe to know it all perfectly.
A man working staying in an industry for years is genuinely considered a true specialist, whereas he could be there by chance doing nothing.
A freshly certified specialist lacking any hands-on exp is accepted as more experienced than a self-taught expert with 10+ yrs.
A highly qualified person who is wor... See more A child of five may sincerely believe to know it all perfectly.
A man working staying in an industry for years is genuinely considered a true specialist, whereas he could be there by chance doing nothing.
A freshly certified specialist lacking any hands-on exp is accepted as more experienced than a self-taught expert with 10+ yrs.
A highly qualified person who is working out of the major and minor should not be considered a professional there, yet still… And I can't help giggling when I remember self-assured cartoonish 'native speakers' from the Diaspora. Good fun though!
Why, even Top 10 specialists are neither the smartest, nor the most talented, just rather active. Furthermore, even recognized gurus often make human mistakes.
Little wonder there are also those who honestly believe they are almost* native speakers, let alone they are sincerely in need for money. So what? Some believe in gods too.
If the ProZ would really like to stop charging a top dollar get rid of false-native claims, they could combine a passive approach (checking one’s posts, CV/Bio, and KudoZ for months/years) and an active one such as a community court. However, the screening process would trigger very many disputes, adding to the fuss for telling doubts and false experience claims from mere libel and defamation.
While ‘flagging’ might help a little, who is the judge? With proper incentives, it’s always possible to find numerous faults above and below.
On the other hand, if many clients seem to be happy with such penny 'native' speakers... ▲ Collapse
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