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Is there a way to prevent the decline in translation rates?
Thread poster: Erwin S. Fernandez
Baran Keki
Baran Keki  Identity Verified
Türkiye
Local time: 17:51
Member
English to Turkish
Why would they teach stuff like that? Mar 5, 2021

Gerard Barry wrote:

we were never told anything about suitable translation rates, how to attract clients or anything practical in relation to working as a freelance translator.


Why would any academic program teach you how much to charge your future clients? Do they teach how much to charge at law or medical school? I mean they should, but they don't. All they teach is theory and book learning. No offense, but I never understood those who insist on dip trans.


 
Gerard Barry
Gerard Barry
Germany
Local time: 15:51
German to English
A little information would go a long way Mar 5, 2021

Baran Keki wrote:

Gerard Barry wrote:

we were never told anything about suitable translation rates, how to attract clients or anything practical in relation to working as a freelance translator.


Why would any academic program teach you how much to charge your future clients? Do they teach how much to charge at law or medical school? I mean they should, but they don't. All they teach is theory and book learning. No offense, but I never understood those who insist on dip trans.


In a one-year programme, I think it should be possible to include a little bit of information on the practicalities of freelance translating. It would help the young translators starting out and help those already working in the field by encouraging the "newbies" not to charge too little for their work.


 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:51
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... Mar 5, 2021

Gerard Barry wrote:
we were never told anything about suitable translation rates, how to attract clients or anything practical in relation to working as a freelance translator. Nor did the course provide adequate training for the type of work most translators do (technical, financial, legal, etc.).

That's because educational institutions are in the business of them making money, not in the one of us making money.
They are simply handing us a paper (sometimes digital) graduation certificate, not a career. They don't care the least whether we succeed or fail.
So, every smart person shouldn't put too much emphasis on getting MORE papers that aren't funded by a stakeholder (employer, perhaps) nor contractually presenting a much better income.


Gerard Barry
Mervyn Henderson (X)
writeaway
 
Dan Lucas
Dan Lucas  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:51
Member (2014)
Japanese to English
Trade or field of research? Mar 6, 2021

Baran Keki wrote:
Why would any academic program teach you how much to charge your future clients? Do they teach how much to charge at law or medical school? I mean they should, but they don't. All they teach is theory and book learning.

It's an interesting question, if we assume that you are not being entirely rhetorical. Should a degree in translation qualifications be biased towards the academic or the vocational? I can see arguments for both sides but can't help feeling the latter would be of more help to most people.

Dan


Gerard Barry
Christine Andersen
 
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL
Giovanni Guarnieri MITI, MIL  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:51
Member (2004)
English to Italian
Both? Mar 6, 2021

Dan Lucas wrote:

Should a degree in translation qualifications be biased towards the academic or the vocational?

Dan


Not very difficult to do, I think.


 
Adieu
Adieu  Identity Verified
Ukrainian to English
+ ...
... Mar 6, 2021

Dan Lucas wrote:

Baran Keki wrote:
Why would any academic program teach you how much to charge your future clients? Do they teach how much to charge at law or medical school? I mean they should, but they don't. All they teach is theory and book learning.

It's an interesting question, if we assume that you are not being entirely rhetorical. Should a degree in translation qualifications be biased towards the academic or the vocational? I can see arguments for both sides but can't help feeling the latter would be of more help to most people.

Dan


100% vocational

Academic translation has no place outside a university history department. We used to assume that academic translation would have some sort of home in the then-budding CAT industry, but as it turns out, it is all a numbers and data machine learning game and pretty much no one actually programs linguistic logic (at least, not anymore).


Gerard Barry
 
jyuan_us
jyuan_us  Identity Verified
United States
Local time: 10:51
Member (2005)
English to Chinese
+ ...
At the graduate level, Mar 6, 2021

they should have developed something like "Translation Economics" or "Introduction to Translation Finance."

Gerard Barry
 
Barbara Niessen
Barbara Niessen  Identity Verified
Germany
Local time: 15:51
Member (2007)
French to German
+ ...
People flooding the translation market = declining rates, bad quality May 17, 2021

This is part of the problem in my opinion:

As written above I cite:
"In many, if not most, countries, translation is an unregulated trade. Low barriers to entry make it easy for anyone with a computer and Internet connection to be a translator or even a language services provider. (... ) they represent a seemingly endless supply of people willing to accept substandard rates." I agree with that.

In recent times I constantly receive offers from agencies that are una
... See more
This is part of the problem in my opinion:

As written above I cite:
"In many, if not most, countries, translation is an unregulated trade. Low barriers to entry make it easy for anyone with a computer and Internet connection to be a translator or even a language services provider. (... ) they represent a seemingly endless supply of people willing to accept substandard rates." I agree with that.

In recent times I constantly receive offers from agencies that are unacceptable. I have to decline these all. I am sure they find another translator willing to work for their ridiculous rates. Now I am getting 10 € for a translation I would have received 35 € five years ago. The big companies are also killing the small agencies with reasonable rates.

Actually I like working for agencies, direct clients are not so easy to find!
But now my favourite agency was taken over and things are getting worse I have to admit. Changing PMs, declining rates etc.
Besides that the translations I proofread are often of an astonishingly bad quality (above all from a certain big agency which seems to have dependencies all over Europe from Poland to Spain but is officially american and has very low rates in USD, too). I wonder why nobody discusses that quality problem caused by unqualified translators. Some do not even master their mother tongue, but everybody wants a piece from the cake. They are taking away the work as described above in the linked article "Gresham's Law". For example: Some agency gave me a very bad MTPE to proofread. 1. It was marketing content, the MT was useless, 2. The MTPeditor didn't master the language and obviously hadn't made any efforts at all 3. It was so bad I had to retranslate it quickly. At least I got a higher rate for that work.

Five years ago when this discussion started I had none of these problems but now I am really thinking about changing my profession.

For example I read in a glossary:
"refreshing eye cream", german translation: "erfrischende Eiscreme" ..... that speaks for itself.

It's not fun any more.
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Kevin Fulton
writeaway
Anita M. A. Mazzoli
 
Andreas Baranowski
Andreas Baranowski  Identity Verified
Japan
Local time: 23:51
Member
Japanese to German
+ ...
"I am really thinking about changing my profession. " May 18, 2021

You are not the only one who is having second thoughts. I am aware of successful translators who are sharing this notion (so would I if I where in my thirties). The translation market is in the midst of a radical transformation which (in my view) will take some years to complete. My advice would be to leave the market and re-tool, i.e., learn a different trade, preferably something useful (solicitor is always good and can be done online) in preparation for the day when the translation industry h... See more
You are not the only one who is having second thoughts. I am aware of successful translators who are sharing this notion (so would I if I where in my thirties). The translation market is in the midst of a radical transformation which (in my view) will take some years to complete. My advice would be to leave the market and re-tool, i.e., learn a different trade, preferably something useful (solicitor is always good and can be done online) in preparation for the day when the translation industry has consolidated and demand for quality recovers --- or for a new start if it doesn’t. I would love to sound more upbeat yet technology-driven change isn’t always kind. Ask a cabby how they feel about Uber.

For an impression which way the LSP industry is headed, take a look at https://www.languagewire.com/en/blog/why-the-current-lsp-model-is-obsolete


[Edited at 2021-05-19 06:19 GMT]
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Kevin Fulton
writeaway
ANDA PENA RO
 
Anita M. A. Mazzoli
Anita M. A. Mazzoli  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:51
English to Italian
+ ...
Stop helping (too much) proz.com posters ;-) May 21, 2021

It had been a while since I last visited. I couldn't help but notice that some posters ask for help with 99% of a text .. this means they not only "won" the project for their lowest cost, but they have the help of those who didn't get the job. And the low level of their rendition is offset by the help they get here. So the agencies that have commissioned the job at the lowest price will continue to do so, and - thanks to our help - they will get a higher level of translation at the lowest cost.

Sadek_A
Ines Radionovas-Lagoutte, PhD
 
Anita M. A. Mazzoli
Anita M. A. Mazzoli  Identity Verified
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:51
English to Italian
+ ...
100% agreed, same here. May 21, 2021

Barbara Niessen wrote:

This is part of the problem in my opinion:

As written above I cite:
"In many, if not most, countries, translation is an unregulated trade. Low barriers to entry make it easy for anyone with a computer and Internet connection to be a translator or even a language services provider. (... ) they represent a seemingly endless supply of people willing to accept substandard rates." I agree with that.

In recent times I constantly receive offers from agencies that are unacceptable. I have to decline these all. I am sure they find another translator willing to work for their ridiculous rates. Now I am getting 10 € for a translation I would have received 35 € five years ago. The big companies are also killing the small agencies with reasonable rates.

Actually I like working for agencies, direct clients are not so easy to find!
But now my favourite agency was taken over and things are getting worse I have to admit. Changing PMs, declining rates etc.
Besides that the translations I proofread are often of an astonishingly bad quality (above all from a certain big agency which seems to have dependencies all over Europe from Poland to Spain but is officially american and has very low rates in USD, too). I wonder why nobody discusses that quality problem caused by unqualified translators. Some do not even master their mother tongue, but everybody wants a piece from the cake. They are taking away the work as described above in the linked article "Gresham's Law". For example: Some agency gave me a very bad MTPE to proofread. 1. It was marketing content, the MT was useless, 2. The MTPeditor didn't master the language and obviously hadn't made any efforts at all 3. It was so bad I had to retranslate it quickly. At least I got a higher rate for that work.

Five years ago when this discussion started I had none of these problems but now I am really thinking about changing my profession.

For example I read in a glossary:
"refreshing eye cream", german translation: "erfrischende Eiscreme" ..... that speaks for itself.

It's not fun any more.





 
Sadek_A
Sadek_A  Identity Verified
Local time: 18:51
English to Arabic
+ ...
..... May 21, 2021

Anita M. A. Mazzoli wrote:
this means they not only "won" the project for their lowest cost, but they have the help of those who didn't get the job


Even way more amusing when they're too arrogant to write a simple "thank you" in return. 😃


 
Paul Dixon
Paul Dixon  Identity Verified
Brazil
Local time: 11:51
Portuguese to English
+ ...
Market regulation May 22, 2021

One excellent way to solve this problem is market regulation.

With the world crisis (particularly in Brazil which has had serious economic problems for at least ten years) there is lots of unemployment. This means that people with a working knowledge of English (or other languages, but the situation is worse for English and Spanish) who have lost their jobs in other areas decide to enter translation, and as they are desperate for money they tend to accept sub-peanuts rates. (I have
... See more
One excellent way to solve this problem is market regulation.

With the world crisis (particularly in Brazil which has had serious economic problems for at least ten years) there is lots of unemployment. This means that people with a working knowledge of English (or other languages, but the situation is worse for English and Spanish) who have lost their jobs in other areas decide to enter translation, and as they are desperate for money they tend to accept sub-peanuts rates. (I have coined a word for this, HISIP rates - HISIP is hypoinfrasubIndian peanuts) This pulls rates down, and if an agency offers USD 0.01 a word (there was one, believe me) there is always someone who accepts. And it makes jobs harder to get. I have just seen a job for book translation, over 100 bids within three hours.

With market regulation, there would be a professional institution and card, to get this card one would need to prove quality through a tough written test (like the procedure at the OAB, the Brazilian Bar Association) and ideally a degree. The 'I spent a week in Disney and can do it for free' would be weeded out, rates and quality would go up, and there would be more work (as there would be less competition).
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Jean Dimitriadis
Jean Dimitriadis  Identity Verified
English to French
+ ...
Against regulation May 22, 2021

"Certification constitutes a form of market manipulation and is plausible only to a schooled mind." — Ivan Illich

The same can be said about such regulation.

There is no need for a top-down intervention to individually uphold high standards.

What next? Get a PhD for flipping burgers?


Adam Dickinson
P.L.F. Persio
 
Christopher Schröder
Christopher Schröder
United Kingdom
Member (2011)
Swedish to English
+ ...
Seriously? May 22, 2021

Paul Dixon wrote:
With market regulation, there would be a professional institution and card, to get this card one would need to prove quality through a tough written test (like the procedure at the OAB, the Brazilian Bar Association) and ideally a degree. The 'I spent a week in Disney and can do it for free' would be weeded out, rates and quality would go up, and there would be more work (as there would be less competition).

Flippant response: What would you do if you failed the test?

Serious response: Nobody who is not new to translation should be constantly competing for low-paid work unless they are either very bad at translation or doing something very wrong business-wise. There should be a natural progression into better-paid work over time.

There is already a big market for high-quality, well-paid translation in all languages. Not all end-clients want cheap shite.


P.L.F. Persio
Kaspars Melkis
Jean Dimitriadis
Christine Andersen
 
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Is there a way to prevent the decline in translation rates?







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